Another StaRite SR400NA heater Question

[Jaimslaw]

My control board is probably toast, thanks to mice. Repaired the partially chewed wire under the control membrane pad, prior to which I was getting LED lighting. Now, no LED lite. Fuses are good, I tried jumping the fireman’s switch, and the pad seems fine . . . and voltage readings from the transformer are good. I believe power is getting to the board as my proximity tester lights up when I place it next to the control boards two 24VAC pins that I assume would rule out lack of pwr to the board (admittedly not optimal diagnostics).

I’ve read in prior posts that LEDs won’t lite if there is no call for power, so am wondering if that is my issue (likely not). My question is: when pressing the Heater button on my PS2 panel, the pool/spa valve doesn’t turn like it normally would, so could this possibly indicate there is no call for heat coming from the PS2 (wiring from which to the heater have continuity and are secure in the PS2 bar). FWIW, the red diagnostic lite doesn’t lite/flash. Zilch.

The board is 14+ years old, and it was working 6 months ago, so am not holding out much hope. How I found the problem in the first place is that the heater fired up by itself one morning along with the LED flickering. BTW, I did mice proof it years ago (wire mesh at every possible opening), evidently, there was a breach or spot I missed.

To mice in my area: challenge accepted. Full and possible lethal counter measures will be implemented. Appropriation of defense funding submitted to wife and awaiting final approval.

 

[ajw22]

The PS2 I know is a Sony PlayStation.

Actuators on diverter valves are controlled by your automation and not the heater.

Show us pictures of your system and controls and what red diagnostic light does not light.

 

[1poolman1]

My control board is probably toast, thanks to mice. Repaired the partially chewed wire under the control membrane pad, prior to which I was getting LED lighting. Now, no LED lite. Fuses are good, I tried jumping the fireman’s switch, and the pad seems fine . . . and voltage readings from the transformer are good. I believe power is getting to the board as my proximity tester lights up when I place it next to the control boards two 24VAC pins that I assume would rule out lack of pwr to the board (admittedly not optimal diagnostics).

I’ve read in prior posts that LEDs won’t lite if there is no call for power, so am wondering if that is my issue (likely not). My question is: when pressing the Heater button on my PS2 panel, the pool/spa valve doesn’t turn like it normally would, so could this possibly indicate there is no call for heat coming from the PS2 (wiring from which to the heater have continuity and are secure in the PS2 bar). FWIW, the red diagnostic lite doesn’t lite/flash. Zilch.

The board is 14+ years old, and it was working 6 months ago, so am not holding out much hope. How I found the problem in the first place is that the heater fired up by itself one morning along with the LED flickering. BTW, I did mice proof it years ago (wire mesh at every possible opening), evidently, there was a breach or spot I missed.

To mice in my area: challenge accepted. Full and possible lethal counter measures will be implemented. Appropriation of defense funding submitted to wife and awaiting final approval.

Do you see a water temperature on the automation (PS2?)? If so, is it what you would expect? A bad water-temperature sensor in the automation will cause it to not turn on the heater and you will get nothing at the heater's display.
Also, rodents will chew the water temp sensor's wire as well as what they do in the heater. I have had to reinstall temps-sensor wiring into conduit because of that problem. If that is the case, try splicing the wires together and see what happens.

 

[Jaimslaw]

Playstation, LOL . . . Its the Aqualogic AQL PS4. Brain did not fully engage when posting model #. Pics are from other posts about my model.

The red light is the StaRite diagnostic light, located below the control board housing. # of flashes = diagnostic code.

The fact that automation (PS4) didn't activate the valve is what fostered the question that the PS4 also was not calling for power to the heater (ie in addition to not calling for pwr to the valve).

Interesting about the temp comment. When the heater went on that morning, it was flashing 65 (water temp would have been 59), and when I repaired the one wire, the top LED did lite - but it when dark following one of my trips to the circuit breaker to turn it off for ringing out some of the leads.

Another oddity: On one trip to the house main panel to turn pool breakers back on, upon aproaching the heater I heard a humming/buzzing coming from the heater. Quickly ran back to shut of the breakers. Not sure what that was all about. Capacitor causing an imbalance of stored voltage??

Edit: Correction as to location of Red Diagnostic Bulb.

 

[JamesW]

That heater is really old.

How old is it?

 

[1poolman1]

Playstation, LOL . . . Its the Aqualogic AQL PS4. Brain did not fully engage when posting model #. Pics are from other posts about my model.

The red light is the StaRite diagnostic light, located below the control board housing. # of flashes = diagnostic code.

The fact that automation (PS4) didn't activate the valve is what fostered the question that the PS4 also was not calling for power to the heater (ie in addition to not calling for pwr to the valve).

Interesting about the temp comment. When the heater went on that morning, it was flashing 65 (water temp would have been 59), and when I repaired the one wire, the top LED did lite - but it when dark following one of my trips to the circuit breaker to turn it off for ringing out some of the leads.

Another oddity: On one trip to the house main panel to turn pool breakers back on, upon aproaching the heater I heard a humming/buzzing coming from the heater. Quickly ran back to shut of the breakers. Not sure what that was all about. Capacitor causing an imbalance of stored voltage??

Edit: Correction as to location of Red Diagnostic Bulb.

The buzz may just be the transformer.
At that brown terminal board below the Fenwal device, remove the two center wires coming from the AquaLogic and jump the two terminals. Try the heater. If it lights, be sure the temp setting on the heater is 104 and the problem is in the AquaLogic not completing the control circuit. Most common reason for that, if the temp in the automation is set to warmer than the water, is the water temp sensor.
That circuit board has gotten very hot at some point.

 

[Jaimslaw]

Thanks. Will try the jumping. Assume jumping is equivalent of PS4 calling for power. Wondering what can be concluded from not getting any red flashing lite. Am getting 120v from the main power feed lines. FYI, pics are from another post, so not my board. But it is old…I’m thinking new install date was 2010. But my PS4 board is still going strong at 20 years, unless I’ve just jinxed it.

Will also search posts here for rat/mice proofing. Really invested a lot of time in that at install date but thinking a wire mesh opened up just enough to let mice in within the last 12 months or so. Not rats, as the wire and only opening into the top control panel platform where the wire was chewed is only about a 1/4” in diameter, and size of droppings also indicates mice only. Placed 4 mouse traps inside the unit for now.

Wish there was a way one could diagnose the board with a meter only, which in any event is above my pay grade.

Edit: did inspect bottom of control board for any scorching marks, similar to that method used last year when I was able to determine and replace a blown relay switch on the PS4 main board, thanks to posts here about that fix. (I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers …quote borrowed from a famous play/movie).

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks. Will try the jumping. Assume jumping is equivalent of PS4 calling for power. Wondering what can be concluded from not getting any red flashing lite. Am getting 120v from the main power feed lines. FYI, pics are from another post, so not my board. But it is old…I’m thinking new install date was 2010. But my PS4 board is still going strong at 20 years, unless I’ve just jinxed it.

Will also search posts here for rat/mice proofing. Really invested a lot of time in that at install date but thinking a wire mesh opened up just enough to let mice in within the last 12 months or so. Not rats, as the wire and only opening into the top control panel platform where the wire was chewed is only about a 1/4” in diameter, and size of droppings also indicates mice only. Placed 4 mouse traps inside the unit for now.

Wish there was a way one could diagnose the board with a meter only, which in any event is above my pay grade.

Edit: did inspect bottom of control board for any scorching marks, similar to that method used last year when I was able to determine and replace a blown relay switch on the PS4 main board, thanks to posts here about that fix. (I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers …quote borrowed from a famous play/movie).

There will be no lights anywhere on that heater if the control circuit is not complete. That is at the terminal board below the Fenwal. When the heater is new there is a small wire that connects those two terminals.

That's all the AquaLogic does when it calls for heat, complete that circuit. It is possible that the heater was placed in the "off" position at the heater control panel before the automation turned it off and it needs to have the control circuit restored to turn it back on and be set to "pool" or "spa" and 104 degrees, and left like that so the AquaLogic can control it on and off.

With mice, you have to check all the wiring going to the control panel. Had a customer call for a second opinion before purchasing a new heater. Opened the heater all the way to removing the "Pagoda" top and found wires chewed through. Did the repair and she became a customer for life as there was nothing else wrong with the heater that she used at least once a week.

 

[Jaimslaw]

That would make sense. So I assume your comment that “when the heater is new, there is a small wire that connects these two terminals,” is when no automation has yet to be connected to the heater. So does jumping these two terminals essentially power up the unit (ie, pad led is lit) if every other component is otherwise fully functional? If so, would that help the diagnosis process (ie, ruling out the PS4 as the culprit (ie not calling for power)?

All wires were carefully checked as plenty of places where a chewed wire would not be obvious. The one chewed wire was under that Pagoda, which I had repaired (to no avail). That wire was still partially connected but suspect the partially exposed connected wiring made contact with the metal platform on which the pagoda sits, or caused a low voltage situation.

Funny that the chewed wire is what likely caused the heater to spontaneously turn on one cold morning (with pad led flickering) . . . mouse evidently called for power to get heat to its burrow (which oddly was made up of a large bed of small bits of attic fiberglass batt insulation from someone’s attic).

 

[ajw22]

It is best to disconnect the heater from automation by restoring the jumper and getting the heater working using its local control panel.

Once the heater is working under local control then you can connect it to yout Aqualogic system and get it working there.

Better to simplify the troubleshooting and not try to diagnose problems in two boxes at the same time.

 

[1poolman1]

That would make sense. So I assume your comment that “when the heater is new, there is a small wire that connects these two terminals,” is when no automation has yet to be connected to the heater. So does jumping these two terminals essentially power up the unit (ie, pad led is lit) if every other component is otherwise fully functional? If so, would that help the diagnosis process (ie, ruling out the PS4 as the culprit (ie not calling for power)?

All wires were carefully checked as plenty of places where a chewed wire would not be obvious. The one chewed wire was under that Pagoda, which I had repaired (to no avail). That wire was still partially connected but suspect the partially exposed connected wiring made contact with the metal platform on which the pagoda sits, or caused a low voltage situation.

Funny that the chewed wire is what likely caused the heater to spontaneously turn on one cold morning (with pad led flickering) . . . mouse evidently called for power to get heat to its burrow (which oddly was made up of a large bed of small bits of attic fiberglass batt insulation from someone’s attic).

Yes.
If you have a meter, check for continuity between the wires coming from the PS4 when you place the system in "Service" mode and turn the heater on at the panel. There should be continuity between the wires. If not, check at the green terminal bar for continuity between the screws that attach those conductors. It's labeled so you know which is the correct place for the wires. Another possibility is that one of the conductors has come out of the terminal bar and just needs to be re-connected.

 

[Jaimslaw]

It is best to disconnect the heater from automation by restoring the jumper and getting the heater working using its local control panel.

Once the heater is working under local control then you can connect it to yout Aqualogic system and get it working there.

Better to simplify the troubleshooting and not try to diagnose problems in two boxes at the same time.

I had taken the board out with the belief that it needed to RIP; but think I'll throw it back in and give the jumping a try (confidence level low). It will give me a chance to see if my little buddy tried out the new traps I left for him. Will post if I get it working.

Thx.

 

[Jaimslaw]

Success. I removed the leads from the PlayStation, jumped the connectors and the led came on. Frankly, required a momentary suspension of disbelief. I figured that with the age of the board, the mice snacking on the wire, and my unbroken string of bad luck this past few weeks, it was going to be a lost cause.

Thanks to the both of you.

Not out of the woods yet. Nightfall came before I could get original automation wiring back on track. Really hoping I don’t have to make a career out of any required reprogramming if original wiring set up fails. I wrote over that part of my brain that handled this more than a decade ago, and have a vague recollection of having struggled with the programming as if I was pouring over instructions for splitting the atom.

 

[1poolman1]

Success. I removed the leads from the PlayStation, jumped the connectors and the led came on. Frankly, required a momentary suspension of disbelief. I figured that with the age of the board, the mice snacking on the wire, and my unbroken string of bad luck this past few weeks, it was going to be a lost cause.

Thanks to the both of you.

Not out of the woods yet. Nightfall came before I could get original automation wiring back on track. Really hoping I don’t have to make a career out of any required reprogramming if original wiring set up fails. I wrote over that part of my brain that handled this more than a decade ago, and have a vague recollection of having struggled with the programming as if I was pouring over instructions for splitting the atom.

There is no programming for the heater other than setting a pool temp and a spa temp and enabling which "heater" you want to be active, the system considers them like two separate heaters.
If the heater came on with the automation removed, check the wiring to the automation, check for continuity between conductors and the screw terminals when the system calls for heat. Do that by placing the system in service mode, turn on the pump then turn on the heater manually.