Transitioning to Liquid Chlorine

[troc]

Hi all,

Here's my intro:

I've had this same in ground pool (18K gals) for 25 years, mostly using 3" Trichlor tabs and shocking it every few weeks depending on the season. My current goal, and the reason I stumbled across this site and signed up, was my trying to find a solution to this problem:

Can I go away for three months, with the pool unattended, and not return to a disaster?

Also, can I do this without breaking the bank or significantly increasing the complexity and/or required maintenance? Maybe this is an unrealistic goal, but if I aim high, I may wind up solving the more realistic goal of four to five weeks.

As I have things currently set up, I can going away for two weeks without any problems. In the peak summer months/heat (here in Austin, TX) two weeks means I come back to a pool that is just about to go south, sometimes mild algae is seen. That two weeks is achieved by shocking before I go and piling in many (8) trichlor tabs. I previously had the Nature2 in-line tank that held 9 to 10 tabs and then I could go closer to three weeks. (It sprung a leak, so I removed it.)

I am now wanting to do more extended travel trips, so three to four and maybe even five weeks is something that will be happening more frequently. Maybe even stay three months someplace in Europe until my Visa expires? That's where the three month goal comes from.

There are two dimensions of this problem: 1) Chemistry 2) Falling debris

Tackling (2) first: I build this bespoke skimmer protector which prevents the skimmer from accumulating debris and burning out the motor, but it means everything that falls in eventually goes to the bottom. That is not an issue for nine months of the year. I could go away for three months if I picked the right three months, but I'd rather not constrain my travel around my trees. All the accumulated debris for June, July and August would not pose any problems. Conversely, in early December when the leaves begin to fall, I need to empty the skimmer three to four times a day.

Possible Solution #1: Just hire a pool company.
Answer: I have had bad experiences and do not trust them to do consistently a good job. They have often done more harm than help. Also, once a week is nowhere near sufficient to empty the baskets when leaves are "in season".

Possible Solution #2: Ask a friend.
Answer: I do sometimes, but they have lives too and the more regular my travels, the more I am imposing on them.

Possible Solution #3: Convert to a saltwater pool.
Answer: A saltwater generator was close to a possible solution on the chemistry front, but the saltwater downsides have things I am not willing to accept (e.g., salt wastewater issues).

Possible Solution #4: Get a pool cover.
Answer: That solves the debris problem. And though it helps reduce the chlorine consumption, it does not eliminate needing to add chlorine.

Possible Solution #5: Automate adding chlorine.
Answer: This is what I settled on for the chemistry problem (for better or worse) and the path I have just started going down. I particularly like avoiding the cyanuric acid build up issue too.

Automating a liquid chlorine injection some in many flavors too. The off-the-shell ones with a feedback loop start in the many thousands of dollars. I also question how durable those systems would be with more delicate electronics. I did not want to invest that kind of money into a system and then run into issues 5 years down the road. I decided I would forego the "intelligence" being in some electronic controller and instead move the intelligence to be with my ability to calibrate my injection pump to the season. Over chlorinating while I am away and no one is using the pool is not that a major issue, so this seems to give me a lot of wiggle room in my adjustments.

Thus, I bought a (relatively) cheap Stenner Pump and Tank and am in the process of setting it all up. Lots of moments of doubts whether this is the right solution or not, but close enough to the end to push through to see for real. Obtaining liquid chlorine in bulk is the one thing I had not put too much thought into initially, but am now staring at it straight on and seeing a potential PITA.

 

[Bperry]

Rethink your salt water decision. There are really no downsides. The mild amount of salt is often the same as a regular chlorine pool. Salt pool just makes chlorine for you on site. Easy to go a month without messing with the chlorine.

 

[troc]

Rethink your salt water decision. There are really no downsides. The mild amount of salt is often the same as a regular chlorine pool. Salt pool just makes chlorine for you on site. Easy to go a month without messing with the chlorine.

Some of the other downsides I read about that seemed unappealing were: requires a certain amount of monthly cleaning (scaling?) and the generator cell needing to be replaced every few years at a non-trivial expense.

 

[Bperry]

Some of the other downsides I read about that seemed unappealing were: requires a certain amount of monthly cleaning (scaling?) and the generator cell needing to be replaced every few years at a non-trivial expense.

Neither of those are true if you are maintaining your pool using TFP guidelines. Mine is 5 years old and has never required cleaning. Plenty of others report the same.

The minor amount of salt in any waste water is pretty harmless to anything. My lawn hasn’t blinked at it when backwashing the filter. There’s a misconception that salt water pools are sanitized by the salt like the ocean, but in fact the machine just breaks down the salt into CL. Ocean water is much more salinity (35000ppm) than a pool at 3500ppm.

 

[Bperry]

Some of the other downsides I read about that seemed unappealing were: requires a certain amount of monthly cleaning (scaling?) and the generator cell needing to be replaced every few years at a non-trivial expense.

I should note that TFP is a little different than most other pool sites. We recommend testing your own water with a known reliable test kit as pool store testing has proven to be very unreliable and leads to pretty bad recommendations that cause do things like make you clean your salt cell frequently or add oddball chemicals that just waste your money. The chemical recommendations are also different than you’ll find most anywhere else, but they work quite well.

 

[troc]

I should note that TFP is a little different than most other pool sites. We recommend testing your own water with a known reliable test kit as pool store testing has proven to be very unreliable and leads to pretty bad recommendations that cause do things like make you clean your salt cell frequently or add oddball chemicals that just waste your money. The chemical recommendations are also different than you’ll find most anywhere else, but they work quite well.

Thank you for that perspective and your experiences. I'll continue to mull over my options.

Note that I've really liked the TFP approach so far. Seems more sensible. I suspect it is because it is unlike most other sights that have some other agenda (like selling chemicals). The objectivity level seems higher here, which I've appreciated.

 

[pjt]

Possible Solution #3: Convert to a saltwater pool.

Have you tested your water for salt content? You might be surprised how much salt is in your water right now. A saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) is by far the cheapest and most convenient way to chlorinate your pool. It would be perfect for your situation. For our Texas climate, it's by far the best option for chlorination. I wouldn't consider owning a pool without one.

requires a certain amount of monthly cleaning

Not true. If you maintain your water chemistry, you should never have to clean your cell. My cell is 4.5 years old with no buildup and has never been cleaned.

generator cell needing to be replaced every few years at a non-trivial expense

This is true, but you're paying for chlorine one way or another. I expect my cell to last at least 7 years. SWCG is the cheapest option for adding chlorine to your water.

 

[sande005]

I converted to salt water a couple of years ago, after 30+ years of tablets. Being in the north, I replace about 20-25% of my water every year due to winter, etc. I tested before buying my first load of salt, in the spring after the annual snow melt/water addition ritual. My salt level just from the prior years tablets was about 2500 ppm. Going to the 3500 level needed was a minor amount of salt added.
If you manage your pH, CH, and CSI levels to be somewhere in reason, you will never need to worry about cell cleaning. Do you have any signs of calcium precipitation in/on any of your equipment currently?? If not, your salt cell won't either.
As noted - pay for Chlorine one way or another - the salt cell over its lifetime is the cheapest way.

Finally - do the math for how much liquid you may have to add periodically, and then how big of a tank you need to be gone for 3 months. There is some level of safety to think about with a larger amount of hazardous chemical stored on your property. Liquid chlorine degrades moderately quickly, so you may have to factor in even more as it gets weaker toward the end of the away period.

A SWCG, with a VSP pump, and a cover on the pool likely will meet all your criteria. The SWCG and pump can run at very low settings (big savings). With some systems, you can tune your pump and SWCG outputs as needed from your phone, anywhere in the world.

You haven't indicated how you will remotely monitor chem levels over the long period. pH will also need monitoring and adjusting. Cl needs to be checked once in a while.

 

[troc]

Have you tested your water for salt content? You might be surprised how much salt is in your water right now. A saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) is by far the cheapest and most convenient way to chlorinate your pool. It would be perfect for your situation. For our Texas climate, it's by far the best option for chlorination. I wouldn't consider owning a pool without one.


Not true. If you maintain your water chemistry, you should never have to clean your cell. My cell is 4.5 years old with no buildup and has never been cleaned.


This is true, but you're paying for chlorine one way or another. I expect my cell to last at least 7 years. SWCG is the cheapest option for adding chlorine to your water.

I appreciate that information. The idea that there is salt in a non-saltwater pool is something I've only recently come across and definitely has started to make me wonder and reconsider.

 

[troc]

I converted to salt water a couple of years ago, after 30+ years of tablets. Being in the north, I replace about 20-25% of my water every year due to winter, etc. I tested before buying my first load of salt, in the spring after the annual snow melt/water addition ritual. My salt level just from the prior years tablets was about 2500 ppm. Going to the 3500 level needed was a minor amount of salt added.
If you manage your pH, CH, and CSI levels to be somewhere in reason, you will never need to worry about cell cleaning. Do you have any signs of calcium precipitation in/on any of your equipment currently?? If not, your salt cell won't either.
As noted - pay for Chlorine one way or another - the salt cell over its lifetime is the cheapest way.

Finally - do the math for how much liquid you may have to add periodically, and then how big of a tank you need to be gone for 3 months. There is some level of safety to think about with a larger amount of hazardous chemical stored on your property. Liquid chlorine degrades moderately quickly, so you may have to factor in even more as it gets weaker toward the end of the away period.

A SWCG, with a VSP pump, and a cover on the pool likely will meet all your criteria. The SWCG and pump can run at very low settings (big savings). With some systems, you can tune your pump and SWCG outputs as needed from your phone, anywhere in the world.

You haven't indicated how you will remotely monitor chem levels over the long period. pH will also need monitoring and adjusting. Cl needs to be checked once in a while.

Monitoring and adjusting chemistry while on vacation would not achieve the goal of 3 months unattended. Having that automated seems to start at $3.5K plus a host of other complications and expenses.

 

[Bperry]

If you got the pool pretty dialed in you could probably get away with going away for three months, but you’d have to be dialed in. The automated systems don’t seem to be all that reliable. I’d probably argue that as long as your chlorine stays In range for the time, all the other stuff will be fine if it’s only for three months long as something doesn’t clog up the skimmer. My pH Inline all summer with just a few tricolor tablets in a floater.

 

[sande005]

Monitoring and adjusting chemistry while on vacation would not achieve the goal of 3 months unattended. Having that automated seems to start at $3.5K plus a host of other complications and expenses.

Well, true "unattended" (no human in the loop at all) is a pretty prohibitive criteria. While we don't recommend, due to inaccuracies, there are affordable home systems that monitor the basics for chems, and report them to your phone. They may require a monthly subscription fee.
With pH a function of the TA level, you might be able to get away without monitoring it - have a lowish TA, and the pH low when you leave. A bit of a risk, but....
The risk with a SWCG is the same as a Stenner solution - you don't know if over the time you are underdosing or overdosing. 90 days is a pretty long time, so any errors will compound over the time. You may come back to a green pool, or one that is bleaching things out.....(dramatic worst case, either way, of course....)

Kind of the same situation you are in now, but with more expense and fussing with systems!

 

[mknauss]

To truly leave a pool 'unattended', no one to check skimmer baskets, water levels, etc. for 3 months, get a solid cover and turn off all systems. Deal with what you have when you return.

 

[troc]

If you got the pool pretty dialed in you could probably get away with going away for three months, but you’d have to be dialed in. The automated systems don’t seem to be all that reliable. I’d probably argue that as long as your chlorine stays In range for the time, all the other stuff will be fine if it’s only for three months long as something doesn’t clog up the skimmer. My pH Inline all summer with just a few tricolor tablets in a floater.

That is sort of the hope ... *if* I can get things dialed in well enough.

Interesting that you say "The automated systems don’t seem to be all that reliable." I had this suspicion being familiar with the complexities of trying to automate anything, but no actual facts about whether they are or are not reliable.

 

[dereksanders]

I wouldn’t leave anything on and unattended for three months.

 

[Jimrahbe]

"The automated systems don’t seem to be all that reliable." I had this suspicion being familiar with the complexities of trying to automate anything,

T,

They are reliable... right up until the point of impact...

I too would not want to leave a pool, unattended for 3 months.. Pools are kind of like children.. You really can't leave them unattended for very long.

If you had a SWCG, you could get away for a month or so...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[troc]

I wouldn’t leave anything on and unattended for three months.

I certainly appreciate that perspective. I am not that trusting either, hence my goal to find a way that someone like me could trust it for 3 months given all the things I could imagine going wrong.

"If you think things can't get worse it's probably only because you lack sufficient imagination."

 

[troc]

To truly leave a pool 'unattended', no one to check skimmer baskets, water levels, etc. for 3 months, get a solid cover and turn off all systems. Deal with what you have when you return.

That is likely closer to the only answer, but with this general idea that if I can reliably automating injecting a little chlorine over that time, what I would have too deal with on return would not be that terrible.

 

[mknauss]

That is likely closer to the only answer, but with this general idea that if I can reliably automating injecting a little chlorine over that time, what I would have too deal with on return would not be that terrible.

Only with a solid cover.

 

[Newdude]

if I can reliably automating injecting a little chlorine over that time

How are you going to test to know if you're losing 4ppm per day that week or 2 ?

Once algae sets in, it'll easily consume whatever you add while getting worse every day.

Or you add too much and the FC is sky high when you return.

The SWG is the greatest thing ever, but every couple of weeks the seasonal demand changes and it needs to be adjusted. I'd go SWG then hire a friend for a weekly FaceTime call to go over how it tests and what he should do about it. Don't 'feel bad' for your friend. Think of what you'd pay a service and make it worth his while to want to come.