Has anyone fixed a leaky backwash drain on the Pentair 4000 filter by replacing the seal on the rotor valve?

[PoolCharge]

Is there a trick to fixing it? It seems like a simple solution, so why would it fail?

 

[ajw22]

Pentair 4000 filter is a DE filter. DE filters often use MPV Valves - Further Reading

A torn spider gasket is often why water leaks out of the MPV backwash pipe.

Show us pictures of your filter and MPV.

Have you inspected the condition of the spider gasket?

 

[JamesW]

Rotor valves are a horrible design.

The problem is that sand and grit accumulates at the bottom and damages the seals.

How old is the filter?

 

[JamesW]

Pentair Valve, Rotor Noryl (073370) - INYOPools.com

073370 - VALVE, ROTOR NORYL (073370)

www.inyopools.com

 

[JamesW]

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[PoolCharge]

Pentair 4000 filter is a DE filter. DE filters often use MPV Valves - Further Reading

A torn spider gasket is often why water leaks out of the MPV backwash pipe.

Show us pictures of your filter and MPV.

Have you inspected the condition of the spider gasket?

The rotor valve seal and the small o-ring below it were fully intact, yet there was a leak from the backwash drain pipe. Here is a video of the rotor valve and seal:

 

[PoolCharge]

Rotor valves are a horrible design.

The problem is that sand and grit accumulates at the bottom and damages the seals.

How old is the filter?

It is close to 18 years old.

 

[ajw22]

It is better if you post this type of link the embeds a YouTube video in the post…

 

[PoolCharge]

The picture shows that the rotor valve seal is fully intact. Since the filter was manufactured in 2008, the rotor valve uses a tapered valve seal, which should have a marking on each of its legs to indicate which side should be at the top but those markings are missing. If it was a straight type of valve seal then it would not have fitted onto the rotor valve.

 

[PoolCharge]

If a Pentair 4000 has a backwash leak then would it not be more economical to just replace the rotor valve seal and o-rings rather than buying a new filter? Why is it that every pool service tech I had spoken with recommended that I replace it with a new filter and even refused to work on it because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age?

 

[JamesW]

Why is it that every pool service tech I had spoken with recommended that I replace it with a new filter and even refused to work on it because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age?

Let’s say that the person quotes $450.00 for the repair (Parts and Labor).

So, the service person goes out and buys the part for $150.00 and as they were working on the filter, they find another problem that would cost another $450.00 (Parts and Labor).

At $900.00 total, you decide that you do not want to do the repairs and you want to replace the filter.

Are you still going to want to pay the original $450.00 since the person already bought the parts and has already spent about 4 hours total including two visits, driving to the parts supplier, office related work like locating parts etc?

Probably not and the service person now has a $450.00 loss.

 

[Newdude]

Or they fix it and 2 months later something more expensive breaks, which may or may not be repairable.

Everyone has a different threshold of when, but at some point you are throwing good money after bad.

 

[1poolman1]

Let’s say that the person quotes $450.00 for the repair (Parts and Labor).

So, the service person goes out and buys the part for $150.00 and as they were working on the filter, they find another problem that would cost another $450.00 (Parts and Labor).

At $900.00 total, you decide that you do not want to do the repairs and you want to replace the filter.

Are you still going to want to pay the original $450.00 since the person already bought the parts and has already spent about 4 hours total including two visits, driving to the parts supplier, office related work like locating parts etc?

Probably not and the service person now has a $450.00 loss.

Great analysis of what does happen. Happened to me a few times, mostly in my early days and always with heaters that were beyond their useful life or true reparability. Even if you go out and diagnose a piece of equipment as something that can't be saved no one really wants to pay for your time because its either, "Your just trying to make more money!" or "Well, you didn't really do anything." Got to the point that my "free estimates" were done over the phone. If you want a true diagnosis you will have to pay for me to come out,

That happens with that Pentair/Purex 4000. No one wants to work on it because it is obsolete. Its not only the seal or rotor, but the actual "collector," the body that part fits into. Its made of brass, no longer available, and worn out. Doesn't matter how many new seals are installed, its going to leak because it is out of tolerance, and a new filter is the only true option. If a repair tech actually does touch that thing, he is now going to be held responsible for a problem that can't be fixed.

 

[1poolman1]

If a Pentair 4000 has a backwash leak then would it not be more economical to just replace the rotor valve seal and o-rings rather than buying a new filter? Why is it that every pool service tech I had spoken with recommended that I replace it with a new filter and even refused to work on it because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age?

That happens with that Pentair/Purex 4000. No one wants to work on it because it is obsolete. Its not only the seal or rotor, but the actual "collector," the body that part fits into. Its made of brass, no longer available, and worn out. Doesn't matter how many new seals are installed, its going to leak because it is out of tolerance, and a new filter is the only true option. If a repair tech actually does touch that thing, he is now going to be held responsible for a problem that can't be fixed.

 

[JamesW]

Why is it that every pool service tech I had spoken with recommended that I replace it with a new filter and even refused to work on it because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age?

You ask why they refused to work on it, but then you say they told you why they won't work on it.

The reason is "Because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age".

At the end of the day, the person is in business and they have to make decisions that make sense for their business to survive and stay in business.

You can do the work yourself or keep looking for someone who will do what you want or you just have to accept what the service people decide is the best option for everyone.

If it leaks 1 week later, you will call complaining "I just paid you $450.00 to fix it, now I want you to come out for free and fix it under warranty or give me my money back".

Just not worth dealing with.

 

[PoolCharge]

That happens with that Pentair/Purex 4000. No one wants to work on it because it is obsolete. Its not only the seal or rotor, but the actual "collector," the body that part fits into. Its made of brass, no longer available, and worn out. Doesn't matter how many new seals are installed, its going to leak because it is out of tolerance, and a new filter is the only true option. If a repair tech actually does touch that thing, he is now going to be held responsible for a problem that can't be fixed.

Here is a video of the part in question:

Can you tell if there is anything wrong with the brass? Please explain what you mean by "it's going to leak because it is out of tolerance". What needs to comply to the tolerance level? Brass is a solid. If that part is out of shape then a new one could be purchased for a fraction of the price of a new filter. So what would stop you from doing the job if you were a tech?

 

[PoolCharge]

You ask why they refused to work on it, but then you say they told you why they won't work on it.

The reason is "Because something else was inevitably going to go bad soon due to its age".

At the end of the day, the person is in business and they have to make decisions that make sense for their business to survive and stay in business.

You can do the work yourself or keep looking for someone who will do what you want or you just have to accept what the service people decide is the best option for everyone.

If it leaks 1 week later, you will call complaining "I just paid you $450.00 to fix it, now I want you to come out for free and fix it under warranty or give me my money back".

Just not worth dealing with.

But if the tank body is without any cracks and the only part that could be causing the leak is the rotor valve, seal and/or o-rings then, in the worst case scenario, replacing it with a new complete rotor valve seems like a long term solution. Are you aware of anything else that could cause a leak in the Pentair 4000?

 

[PoolCharge]

Great analysis of what does happen. Happened to me a few times, mostly in my early days and always with heaters that were beyond their useful life or true reparability. Even if you go out and diagnose a piece of equipment as something that can't be saved no one really wants to pay for your time because its either, "Your just trying to make more money!" or "Well, you didn't really do anything." Got to the point that my "free estimates" were done over the phone. If you want a true diagnosis you will have to pay for me to come out,

That happens with that Pentair/Purex 4000. No one wants to work on it because it is obsolete. Its not only the seal or rotor, but the actual "collector," the body that part fits into. Its made of brass, no longer available, and worn out. Doesn't matter how many new seals are installed, its going to leak because it is out of tolerance, and a new filter is the only true option. If a repair tech actually does touch that thing, he is now going to be held responsible for a problem that can't be fixed.

You are confusing the body that the rotor valve fits into with some other filter's. The rotor valve fits inside the Pentair 4000's solid tank body, as pictured.

 

[PoolCharge]

Or they fix it and 2 months later something more expensive breaks, which may or may not be repairable.

Everyone has a different threshold of when, but at some point you are throwing good money after bad.

If you are familiar with the Pentair 4000 then please explain what could go wrong.

 

[JamesW]

If you are familiar with the Pentair 4000 then please explain what could go wrong.

Everyone keeps explaining it to you but all you want to do is argue.

Rotor valves are a horrible design.

The problem is that sand and grit accumulates at the bottom and damages the seals.

Damaged seal = leak.

If it leaks 1 week later, you will call complaining "I just paid you $450.00 to fix it, now I want you to come out for free and fix it under warranty or give me my money back".

Just not worth dealing with.