Brand New Pool Owner Closing Pool?

[oledan]

While I believe I got a handle on the chemistry side of things I have to admit the thought of closing my pool by myself scares me. It seems to be such a complex process and if I screw it up it will cost thousands to repair. As a brand-new pool owner should I hire my pool builder for the first time to close the pool for me (charges $350) and watch him closely (maybe even video the whole process) then do It myself from then on?

I do have an air compressor and a shop vac I could use.....I've seen videos where one attaches and air compressor to the drain valve port in the pump and blows out the lines that way?

My shop vac is a wet/dry vac and is 6 peak hp. Is that powerful enough to blow out the lines?

I also bought two gismos and three "duck plugs" for the return jets.

So basically, I have the necessary equipment to close it myself I believe I just don't know if I should my first time out?
What would you do if you were me?
I will attach two pics of my set up....


Thank you,
Dan

 

[PoolStored]

This is what I would do.

1. Order a cyclone. Link-->Amazon.com
2. Order these two, but get two of the hose adapters. Links--> Amazon.com Amazon.com
3. Order spare pump basket cover. Post your pump model # and we'll get you the part.
4. Get a 6' length of 1 1/2" flex PVC and two hose clamps to match.
5. ^^^These will be about $425 in parts. Payback about a year.
6. This video goes over the entire process, but the segment here (
   ) shows how to cut a hole in the spare skimmer lid (#3 above) and put the parts from #2 together so you can introduce the air into the pump basket.
7. Put the spare lid on the pump. Put the other adapter into the threads on the cyclone. Connect the two with the flex pvc and secure with the hose clamps.
8. I prefer to drain below the skimmers about 3-4". I also have a sump to lower the pool level, both for winterizing and during winter to keep the water level below the skimmer. Even with a Gizmo and pool noodles, I hate risking have a skimmer freeze.
9. Cut up a few pool noodles to the depth of the skimmer with lid on, and a few the length of the skimmer mouth opening. Put the gizmo in, making sure to lubricate the o-rings with silicone lubricant (not PTFE/Teflon lube). Fill the skimmer mouth with the noodles and surround the gizmo with noodles.
10. Take the top off the gizmos.
11. Put your Filter in "RECIRCULATE"
12. Turn off all Suction and return valves except 1 skimmer. Blow away! When the water is all out, put 1/2G (Propylene Glycol based only) of pool antifreeze into the gizmo hole and return the gizmo top.
13. Turn off skimmer 1 and repeat with skimmer 2.
14. Put your ducks in the returns. Blow each return out, 1 by 1, until you are confident you got all the water out.
15. Drain the chlorinator and the filter. Drain the pump.

Other thoughts
1) Watch the full video above.
2) Read this...Link--> Closing an In Ground Pool
3) Read this...Link--> Closing Pool for Winter - Further Reading
4) Post a close up of the areas where your valves are...looks like there are cleanouts. If you have cleanouts, use the adapter attached to the cleanouts, then you don't have to buy and make the special lid.

I'm sure I forgot something, and other will add their 2 cents.

I did my closing the first year I had the pool. Took a bit longer the first year, now it is about 30-40min chore (not including draining the pool).

You can do this!!!

 

[oledan]

Pool stored, thank you for your reply. I have one thought as I was reading it through- I can NOT drain my pool, in fact I am supposed to keep it at the upper level (3/4 way up skimmer) to support my auto-cover during winter. Also my pool is fiberglass which from what I understand draining down is a big no no.

Is it necessary to buy the cyclone when I have a 6hp shop vac? I will buy if necessary but want to save if appropriate.

I will research the rest of your post, again thank you for your reply.

Dan

 

[PoolStored]

Then omit the draining and make sure you stuff noodles in the skimmer mouth and pot.

The one specification that you need, to determine with certainty that it'll work, is outlet pressure and CFM and no shop vac mfg's that I know of list that spec. In order to blow water out of a line you have to know the head of the water in the line and buy something to overcome that. For comparison, the cyclone delivers 160" sealed pressure water lift and 130 CFM air flow.

Some have been successful with a shop vac, others have failed and reverted to the cyclone. I make the recommendation only because I know it works, saves a bunch of time futzing with shop vac.

Since you already have both, then do a dry run in advance of actual close. If it works, you are golden. If not you have enough time to get a cyclone. It makes it stupid easy.

 

[oledan]

4) Post a close up of the areas where your valves are...looks like there are cleanouts. If you have cleanouts, use the adapter attached to the cleanouts, then you don't have to buy and make the special lid.

I'm sure I forgot something, and other will add their 2 cents.

I did my closing the first year I had the pool. Took a bit longer the first year, now it is about 30-40min chore (not including draining the pool).

You can do this!!!

PoolStored, sorry for the delay but here are some pics you asked for to determine if I need to make the special lid or not?

Hope I don't, one less thing. I have on/off suction side valves for each skimmer as well. No sure where I would blow air through so if you would please clarify that for me?
Thank you,
Dan

 

[Newdude]

No sure where I would blow air through so if you would please clarify that for me?

All your cleanouts, or maybe only one depending on the strength of the blower.



You'd need a 2 inch NPT to 1.5 barb adapter if you got a 1.5 inch hose. Screw the adapter into the cleanout, smack the hose on and blow.

Here's an Example. A local plumbing supply would have them. Or another 2 inch to XX if your hose isn't 1.5 inch.

Once empty, add a gallon of RV / marine antifreeze to each cleanout, then put the caps back. (Lowes has it for $4 each fall)

There's no main drain, right ?

 

[sande005]

I used to do the compressor to drain port thing (since bought a Cyclone). You need a fair size tank on the compressor to provide enough volume. Mine is 8 gal., and could barely do it. You might be tempted to up the pressure, to assist what volume it has - but be very cautious! I have a on/off valve for the airline, and would always make sure there was always one pool valve open before adding pressure - so it not build too high in a closed system. I never went higher than 40 lbs, and that was likely pushing the envelope. In the early days, I forgot about having one valve open, and had cranked it up much higher - and blew apart my pump (!) It was only luck that I did not have a serious injury from the shrapnel. With a smallish tank, you'll have to blow out what you can from one line, then let the compressor refill, then do it again for the same line. Then do it again. I was never confident I got enough out, so depended on 2 gal of antifreeze per line as insurance. Repeat for each skimmer and outlet line. Took a fair amount of time, and a lot of compressor running.
The Cyclone with low pressure but very high volume is fast, and almost risk free. Expensive for a once-a-year device, but I wouldn't go back.
My skimmers accept a standard 1 1/2" pipe screw-in fitting, so I use one of these in there: Amazon.com with my manual pool vacuum hose on it, the other end to the Cyclone. By adjusting valves, I can blow water out of the other skimmer, as well as all the equipment and the return lines. There are other adaptors that can press fit into the skimmer, if yours isn't threaded.

 

[oledan]

All your cleanouts, or maybe only one depending on the strength of the blower.

View attachment 612193

You'd need a 2 inch NPT to 1.5 barb adapter if you got a 1.5 inch hose. Screw the adapter into the cleanout, smack the hose on and blow.

Here's an Example. A local plumbing supply would have them. Or another 2 inch to XX if your hose isn't 1.5 inch.

Once empty, add a gallon of RV / marine antifreeze to each cleanout, then put the caps back. (Lowes has it for $4 each fall)

There's no main drain, right ?

Correct, no main drain. Do the suction side the same way for my two skimmers?

 

[Newdude]

Do the suction side the same way for my two skimmers?

Yup. Close the valve and send it all back to the pool down each leg.

With such a simple setup, it's probably easier to shove the hose in each skimmer and blow the whole thing. Close 3 of the 4 returns and blow one skimmer leg and close that skimmer valve once theres no more water shooting out. Then blow the other skimmer leg. Close the return leg you left open and open up the other return legs one at a time to clear those.

Then take 6 gallons of antifreeze, one down each skimmer pipe, and split the other 4 at all the pad cleanouts.

 

[oledan]

So, more questions about pool closing. What should my chemistry be upon closing? I've read that my FC needs to be SLAM level-so for me 20 (Cya is 50)? Once my auto cover is closed do I ever check the levels again during the winter or just wait until spring? I have some Polyquat algaecide on hand should I have some of it just to be safe?

Thank you all,
Dan
'

 

[Newdude]

Once my auto cover is closed do I ever check the levels again during the winter or just wait until spring?

It needs to be well mixed before testing, and also after adding anything. If you're bored over the winter and it isnt frozen, you could drop a submersible in there for a while to mix it. The FC and Ph are quick fixes if need be. Ch doesn't matter and CYA needs to mix for a full day so leave it be.

I have some Polyquat algaecide on hand should I have some of it just to be safe?

If you do, you want half slam FC. (10 for your 50 CYA).

What should my chemistry be upon closing?

Regular reccomended levels, plus the added FC.

 

[oledan]

Thank you sir. One more, any harm in going above SLAM levels? Say if I went to a FC level of 35-40 would it be any better come opening time in the Spring?

 

[sande005]

Here's an old thread about the subject. But if chem_geek decides not to do it for his pool, that is the final word for me. He's one of the foundational members of this site, and has done most of the deep research about pool chemistry a lot of our guidance is based on.
how long will chlorine last under cover?.

 

[Newdude]

One more, any harm in going above SLAM levels? Say if I went to a FC level of 35-40

Yes. You risk damage to your finish being over slam for a prolonged time. It will stay high for a long time once covered.

 

[oledan]

A couple random closing questions if you please......

1) After I close pool and shut the cover should I test the water periodically though out the winter or just leave cover shut and don't open until spring opening time?

2) Upon closing if all chemicals are in TFP ranges and I shut the cover what will my chemical ranges be upon opening assuming I leave cover shut all winter? If I close with a Cya of 50ppm will it still be 50 upon opening? What should My FC be if I close at slam level of 20?

Many thanks,
Dan

 

[Newdude]

After I close pool and shut the cover should I test the water periodically though out the winter or just leave cover shut and don't open until spring opening time?

I have to drain mine occasionally with a mesh cover, so I use that as an easy excuse to check and see there's still FC in there. I toss the pump hose on the cover and mix it for an hour after draining to redistribute anything that settled, or any rainy water up top that didn't drain. Just like draining, it takes a couple mins to setup then I walk away while it does it's thing. In the end, very little time is spent on the project, and i got other stuff done while it was pumping. Or nothing. Maybe I got 4 hours of couch time which is also important sometimes.

With a solid cover, I'd probably check it once mid winter between freezes just because I wanted to play with it.

Upon closing if all chemicals are in TFP ranges and I shut the cover what will my chemical ranges be upon opening assuming I leave cover shut all winter?

Cya degrades 3 to 5 ppm a month, the rest lower an even proportion based upon how much rain gets in there. Say. 2 inches in a 60 inch average depth pool....... will lower CH, salt and CYA by 1/30 once mixed. The PH and TA will be similar to how you left them with fiberglass.

The FC loss is specific to that year and you should have at least some left in the spring if you start at SLAM. I close so late that I only do half slam, but also because I know I'm going to mess with it over the winter and will see if it got low.

 

[oledan]

Thanks sir. So unless I mix with a submersible pump don’t just open cover and pour chlorine in without a SPump to mix it?

 

[Newdude]

Correct. Testing needs to be well mixed, ever. Then adding anything needs to be well mixed, ever.

Chlorine is a fairly quick mix if the need/desire arises, even with a submersible pump. I put my submersible in a submerged 5 gallon bucket and slooooooowly add chlorine to a piece of 3/4 conduit into it so it's mostly diluted before it leaves the business end of the hose. Then I let it run for an hour with the hose getting 20 minutes left, right and center to disperse it well.

 

[oledan]

So I took this Friday off to close pool as water temp is now below 60dg. I add LC last night to bring to 20ppm slam level for me and will let it mix all day today and overnight. My chemicals testing prior to add LC were:

TA 80
PH 7.8

 

[oledan]

Sorry, for some reason I didn’t get my question asked…..
Would you lower ph down a bit (cause it will continue to rise all winter if I understand correctly) to 7.4-7.6 or just leave it alone?

I’m a little sad about closing time btw, feels like I’m sending one of my kids off to college and I won’t see them for a long time! I’ll miss taking care of it.