1996/1997 Raypak RP2100 No Power

[kchinger]

This heater has somehow been soldiering on despite its age, but we decided to finally stop using it intermittently and instead just keep the pool at temperature for a while. I went out today to check on it and it's dead, no power light despite other things on the same circuit having power.

Before I start taking the panel off and working my way backwards from the light, this isn't worth spending more than like $20 to repair, right?

If I install a heater bypass so I can keep the pump running throughout, is it worth trying to buy a heater and install it myself (I'm handy and fine with gas and electric) or is it just better/warranty/whatever to have someone install one? I'm probably gonna go with gas again I think. Heat Pump just probably isn't worth it for our use case, especially since at last until last week we usually just started heating the morning we wanted to swim that afternoon.

 

[1poolman1]

This heater has somehow been soldiering on despite its age, but we decided to finally stop using it intermittently and instead just keep the pool at temperature for a while. I went out today to check on it and it's dead, no power light despite other things on the same circuit having power.

Before I start taking the panel off and working my way backwards from the light, this isn't worth spending more than like $20 to repair, right?

If I install a heater bypass so I can keep the pump running throughout, is it worth trying to buy a heater and install it myself (I'm handy and fine with gas and electric) or is it just better/warranty/whatever to have someone install one? I'm probably gonna go with gas again I think. Heat Pump just probably isn't worth it for our use case, especially since at last until last week we usually just started heating the morning we wanted to swim that afternoon.

A $20.00 repair? Well . . .
Is there power to the heater? Is there a blown fuse at the IID control (upper left of the cabinet) behind the door/panel? Is there 24V to the circuit board? Is that board bad?
You're dealing with a heater that is about 25 or more years old. If it is in good condition it can be worth repairing.
If you are comfortable with gas and electric and plumbing, a new heater might be a better way as there are more parts that can still go bad in yours.
Heat pumps are slow. Gas are fast.
A new RayPak 406A will take the least amount of replumbing if you go that route.

 

[kchinger]

A $20.00 repair? Well . . .
Is there power to the heater? Is there a blown fuse at the IID control (upper left of the cabinet) behind the door/panel? Is there 24V to the circuit board? Is that board bad?
You're dealing with a heater that is about 25 or more years old. If it is in good condition it can be worth repairing.
If you are comfortable with gas and electric and plumbing, a new heater might be a better way as there are more parts that can still go bad in yours.
Heat pumps are slow. Gas are fast.
A new RayPak 406A will take the least amount of replumbing if you go that route.

It was literally $20, lol. 24V transformer died. $18 on Amazon and less than an hour total to diagnose and repair and I'm back in business.

I have 2 sheet metal screws left over, but you can't win them all. Hopefully it'll soldier on another year. I've already done the board, low pressure switch, and transformer. So I guess next is probably the spark controller, the gas valve, or a leak. It lives in a pool shed which I assume has helped it live longer than usual.

 

[kchinger]

@1poolman1 ok, so that was short lived. Something killed it again after less than a day. I assume the transformer again. Any ideas where I should start troubleshooting what's killing the transformer? I assume it must be something shorting occasionally? Or maybe the transformer is overheating due to bad airflow or something?

 

[1poolman1]

@1poolman1 ok, so that was short lived. Something killed it again after less than a day. I assume the transformer again. Any ideas where I should start troubleshooting what's killing the transformer? I assume it must be something shorting occasionally? Or maybe the transformer is overheating due to bad airflow or something?

The transformer powers three items in that heater, the board, the IID device (grey box), and the main gas valve. Look for a shorted wire or a burned spot on the board. None of those items should draw much current, but I have never seen a troubleshooting guide for them. The item that draws the most current would probably be the gas valve.
Did the replacement transformer have the same specs as the original. Just because it can produce 24V doesn't mean that it can handle the same amperage.

 

[kchinger]

The transformer powers three items in that heater, the board, the IID device (grey box), and the main gas valve. Look for a shorted wire or a burned spot on the board. None of those items should draw much current, but I have never seen a troubleshooting guide for them. The item that draws the most current would probably be the gas valve.
Did the replacement transformer have the same specs as the original. Just because it can produce 24V doesn't mean that it can handle the same amperage.

Yeah, it was a 40VA 240V/24V (although it tested out at about 28V but I think that's fine under no load). I couldn't find the VA on the old one, but it was Class 2 so I assume probably 40VA as well. Maybe I undersized it though. Do you know where I can find the specs somewhere? The Raypak listed replacements seem to vary from like 30-42VA. So 40VA should've been fine. I'll try to look for evidence of shorts/overheating on those three things I guess.

 

[1poolman1]

Yeah, it was a 40VA 240V/24V (although it tested out at about 28V but I think that's fine under no load). I couldn't find the VA on the old one, but it was Class 2 so I assume probably 40VA as well. Maybe I undersized it though. Do you know where I can find the specs somewhere? The Raypak listed replacements seem to vary from like 30-42VA. So 40VA should've been fine. I'll try to look for evidence of shorts/overheating on those three things I guess.

You probably have seen this, but it is the OEM replacement. I don't remember replacing more than two transformers in a Ray Pak and one in a Sta-Rite over the last 30+ years, they just seem to last. I only used a generic once, didn't have a problem with it, but realized that if it caused a problem, I would be liable, so when doing repairs I stick to OEM products if possible.

 

[kchinger]

Ordered a replacement for the amazon transformer, since it was slightly cracked on the plastic housing when it got here, maybe it had some damage that killed it after a bit. I don't see any signs of damage on the board, IID, or gas valve. There's a burned spot on one of the 24V leads, but it's between the transformer and the board and it doesn't seem to go through the insulation, so I suspect it just touched some metal near the flames at some point and got charred. I first noticed it when replacing the transformer originally.

If another Amazon transformer dies, I might buy the actual replacement, but then I'm concerned that I'll just kill it too (since they're essentially sacrificial protection devices in a way). Can I add an inline fuse to protect it possibly? And then if that blows, I'll replace either the IID or the gas valve? Looks like the gas valve or controller are each like $250+. Maybe I'm just looking at a new heater at that point instead of throwing $500 at this one.

 

[1poolman1]

Ordered a replacement for the amazon transformer, since it was slightly cracked on the plastic housing when it got here, maybe it had some damage that killed it after a bit. I don't see any signs of damage on the board, IID, or gas valve. There's a burned spot on one of the 24V leads, but it's between the transformer and the board and it doesn't seem to go through the insulation, so I suspect it just touched some metal near the flames at some point and got charred. I first noticed it when replacing the transformer originally.

If another Amazon transformer dies, I might buy the actual replacement, but then I'm concerned that I'll just kill it too (since they're essentially sacrificial protection devices in a way). Can I add an inline fuse to protect it possibly? And then if that blows, I'll replace either the IID or the gas valve? Looks like the gas valve or controller are each like $250+. Maybe I'm just looking at a new heater at that point instead of throwing $500 at this one.

If you called me out to look at your heater, I would have to look long and hard at it before asking you to spend money on a heater that old. The RP2100 was the first RayPak line to have the Capron headers a long time ago.
If you have a multi-meter, check for continuity between them and a ground (the cabinet or ground wire) at every terminal a 24V line goes to or through, even the ones in the header and the gas valve. You may find your issue. BE sure there are no holes in the limit switches and there is no continuity at the pressure switch and is body if it is a metal one (some are plastic bodied).

 

[kchinger]

If you called me out to look at your heater, I would have to look long and hard at it before asking you to spend money on a heater that old. The RP2100 was the first RayPak line to have the Capron headers a long time ago.
If you have a multi-meter, check for continuity between them and a ground (the cabinet or ground wire) at every terminal a 24V line goes to or through, even the ones in the header and the gas valve. You may find your issue. BE sure there are no holes in the limit switches and there is no continuity at the pressure switch and is body if it is a metal one (some are plastic bodied).

The headers are the metal things that the pipe connects to outside the heater? And continuity between them and a ground on say the gas valve is good or bad? Not sure I fully followed, sorry. I am an electrical engineer but it's not my day to day, lol, and certainly not pool heaters.

 

[1poolman1]

The headers are the metal things that the pipe connects to outside the heater? And continuity between them and a ground on say the gas valve is good or bad? Not sure I fully followed, sorry. I am an electrical engineer but it's not my day to day, lol, and certainly not pool heaters.

You want zero continuity (a short) between any of the terminals and any ground. Also, zero continuity between any terminal and the body of a safety switch (hi-limit, pressure).
You must have a bronze or cast-iron headered RP2100, usually used on commercial properties as they were ASME certified. Very unusual on a residence, and I saw very few of those when they came out.
If you do have metal (yes the plumbing connection end and the other end of the heat exchanger) headers, it is not unusual to find that one of the hi-limit switches or the pressure switch has failed and is shorting to ground.
There should also be a fuse in the cabinet that houses the IID. But sometimes they didn't come with one.

 

[kchinger]

You want zero continuity (a short) between any of the terminals and any ground. Also, zero continuity between any terminal and the body of a safety switch (hi-limit, pressure).
You must have a bronze or cast-iron headered RP2100, usually used on commercial properties as they were ASME certified. Very unusual on a residence, and I saw very few of those when they came out.
If you do have metal (yes the plumbing connection end and the other end of the heat exchanger) headers, it is not unusual to find that one of the hi-limit switches or the pressure switch has failed and is shorting to ground.
There should also be a fuse in the cabinet that houses the IID. But sometimes they didn't come with one.

The IID, while disconnected from the board, shows a dead short between the 24V hot and 24V ground pins. I'm guessing that's the issue. The only fix then is to replace that spark controller, but I think that's like $250+? Not worth it I assume. The entire thing is rusty and in pretty rough shape. Maybe it's time. The season might just be over because I'm not sure I can fix this in time anyway, which sucks. I saw on Raypak that you get a warranty if it's installed by pros I think, is that worth it or just do it myself and it'll be fine? I'm comfortable doing it, but the warranty would be nice.

 

[kchinger]

Ok, update. I fixed it (99% sure this time). It wasn't the IID, the new one I got from ebay ($38) showed the same dead short, but I put it in anyway. It must not be a true a short, just when it doesn't have power it shows that, probably an inductor or transformer or something. But now I have a spare at least.



It was actually this part here. I was moving my ammeter clamp around to check for high current draw somewhere, and when I bumped this piece the control board started flickering and then my fuse blew (glad I added a fuse, they're easier to change than transformers). The screw that holds it to the sheet metal had gotten loose, like the hole grew a bit over time, so when it shifted slightly, the leads contacted the housing. I put in a bigger sheet metal screw to secure it, put a new fuse in, and all seems well again. This perfectly explains why it seems to run fine for a while and then die.

This part (I'm guessing it's a high temp limit switch?) seems awfully jury rigged, like someone replaced the actual sensor with a diode bypass, but I could be wrong.

Hopefully it soldiers on another year. And I plan to add a bypass this winter so that it's easier to change next time. Already bought my 3 way and check valve.

 

[kchinger]

For anyone swinging by, I'm 99% sure it's actually the flame rollout switch, and that's what it's supposed to look like.

 

[1poolman1]

For anyone swinging by, I'm 99% sure it's actually the flame rollout switch, and that's what it's supposed to look like.

Its a one-and-done fuse.

 

[kchinger]

Its a one-and-doe fuse.

All fuses are one and done, by definition . I tried to look up how it works, I'm assuming that fuse just gets super hot from the flame touching it, and melts internally?

 

[swamprat69]

It is a fusible link. The continuity through the safety is maintained by a combination of metals made to melt at a specific temperature and open the circuit at that temperature much like the spring loaded valves in a fire sprinkler system when the safety melts.