Edit: Changing filter and fixing up the plumbing project.

[superdave5599]

Edit 2:

I'm got the filter, and am now working on installing it along with fixing up some of the wonky plumbing choices made by previous owners of the house. That mostly starts here

Edit1 :

I've decided I don't want to do the variable speed pump right now, but do want to update the plumbing. My shopping list is here. Would appreciate any suggestions.



Hello all-

Because I have mudjackers coming at the beginning of April to touch up a few spots around the deck, I need to get the winter cover off at the end of the month.

And because my filter is leaking pretty badly, I need to replace it!

I think I'm fine with going with another sand filter (I did see somewhere a comment that a cartridge style might be better for a pool with SWG, but didn't see any reason why. And besides leaking at the end of the season, the current filter didn't seem to have a problem.), but at some point it was indicated to me that perhaps my filter is undersized.

So, I'm looking for recommendations.

I also keep reading about the benefits of running a variable speed pump vs. single speed. I had decent luck with only running the single speed pump a few hours most days, but if I could reap some good benefit with a VS pump, I'm interested. By the plate, though, I think my current pump is only 4 years old, so I do wonder about wasting money with changing it unnecessarily. I'm trying to find out my city's electric rate, as I know that will be a part of the calculation. (It isn't immediately available on the bill, because it is a weird city co-op thing.)

Thanks!

 

[1poolman1]

Hello all-

Because I have mudjackers coming at the beginning of April to touch up a few spots around the deck, I need to get the winter cover off at the end of the month.

And because my filter is leaking pretty badly, I need to replace it!

I think I'm fine with going with another sand filter (I did see somewhere a comment that a cartridge style might be better for a pool with SWG, but didn't see any reason why. And besides leaking at the end of the season, the current filter didn't seem to have a problem.), but at some point it was indicated to me that perhaps my filter is undersized.

So, I'm looking for recommendations.

I also keep reading about the benefits of running a variable speed pump vs. single speed. I had decent luck with only running the single speed pump a few hours most days, but if I could reap some good benefit with a VS pump, I'm interested. By the plate, though, I think my current pump is only 4 years old, so I do wonder about wasting money with changing it unnecessarily. I'm trying to find out my city's electric rate, as I know that will be a part of the calculation. (It isn't immediately available on the bill, because it is a weird city co-op thing.)

Thanks!

Would have thought you to be in Florida with that tiny filter, 2.2 sq. ft.
If you like sand, and it is a good choice, one twice that size, like a Hayward S-310T or a Pentair TA-100D, would be good, both 5 sq. ft. They come complete with MPV. Both have large, 30" tanks, so size may be an issue.
If so, a large capacity (400 sq. ft. +) cartridge filter would work well as the tanks are only 18" - 20."
Your electric rate is about $.15kw/hr.
Your existing pump could be converted to VSP with a motor replacement. Nidec Neptune NPTQ165, plus seal and O rings.
For long term savings, a pump of 2.7 THP or more is a better choice as it could be run at even lower speeds to move the same amount of money. I have a similar electric rate. My 2.7 Hayward runs 14.5 hours/day for less than $25.00/month.

 

[superdave5599]

Lets just assume that the local pool store sold that filter to one of the home's previous owners! Wasn't me, this was all here when we bought the house a little over a year ago. LOL

Since my MPV is kind of centrally located on the filter and these options have it on top, I'm reworking the plumbing one way or another. So I can surely do it in such a way as to make it fit. I'll try to get a pic of the pad tomorrow. Any concerns with the fact that these filters look to use 2 inch lines, and everything I've got is 1.5? Just adapt it down and roll with it?

Looks like my electric rate is $ .085/KWH for the first 800 KWH, and then anything over 800 is charged at $ .095. Is there a chart out there that might help determine the savings/payback time for changing the pump? Wish I knew how much of the obvious increase in use through the summer was pool pump, and how much was air conditioner! I'm starting to think that probably I'm throwing good money after bad if I replace a perfectly good pump just to replace it. But, will certainly look at a VS pump whenever this one does go bad.

 

[1poolman1]

Lets just assume that the local pool store sold that filter to one of the home's previous owners! Wasn't me, this was all here when we bought the house a little over a year ago. LOL

Since my MPV is kind of centrally located on the filter and these options have it on top, I'm reworking the plumbing one way or another. So I can surely do it in such a way as to make it fit. I'll try to get a pic of the pad tomorrow. Any concerns with the fact that these filters look to use 2 inch lines, and everything I've got is 1.5? Just adapt it down and roll with it?

Looks like my electric rate is $ .085/KWH for the first 800 KWH, and then anything over 800 is charged at $ .095. Is there a chart out there that might help determine the savings/payback time for changing the pump? Wish I knew how much of the obvious increase in use through the summer was pool pump, and how much was air conditioner! I'm starting to think that probably I'm throwing good money after bad if I replace a perfectly good pump just to replace it. But, will certainly look at a VS pump whenever this one does go bad.

Based on those electric rates, payback may take a while and should not be the criteria for a VSP purchase. Your existing pump used a maximum of 1.9kw/h (though the max is seldom the actual amount used). That is $.18/hr at the high rate. How long do you normally filter? Usually 6 - 8hr/day or $1.44/day at the max rate, $43.00/month.
A VSP, used properly, might use 25% of that, saving you +/- $30.00/month. Since you don't actually spend a lot per kilowatt/hour and the savings are a percentage of that, the payback is longer.

 

[Newdude]

Looks like my electric rate

Don't forget the taxes, fees and delivery surcharges. They can double the KW charges some places.

It's easiest to just divide the total bill by the KW used to get a true #. Maybe it's close to what they claim, maybe not.

 

[superdave5599]

Alrighty, confirmed that I won't be replacing the pump anytime soon (knock on wood!)

Here's a pic of my pump/filter setup. Think I can rework it to fit a larger filter with the MPV on top?

 

[1poolman1]

Alrighty, confirmed that I won't be replacing the pump anytime soon (knock on wood!)

Here's a pic of my pump/filter setup. Think I can rework it to fit a larger filter with the MPV on top?

View attachment 558409

That much room is a service tech's dream. You can easily install an S-310T or TA100D in that space (you will haul 500# sand).
If you want the best, you could install a variable-speed motor to your Whisperflo. Not sure the horsepower of your existing pump.
Get rid of the ball valves in front of the pump and use a 3-way like a Jandy. Install a couple of high-temp pump unions to get rid of that rubber sleeve and plumb to the filter and you will be good for a very long time.

 

[superdave5599]

Any concern with installing a filter that has 2 inch ports, with the 1.5 inch plumbing I have all the way around the pool? Do I assume correctly that I can just adapt that?

What advantage would I gain by swapping the ball valves to the Jandy/3 way?

I'll probably wait to swap the motor for now but likely swap to one whenever this pump wears out.

 

[1poolman1]

Any concern with installing a filter that has 2 inch ports, with the 1.5 inch plumbing I have all the way around the pool? Do I assume correctly that I can just adapt that?

What advantage would I gain by swapping the ball valves to the Jandy/3 way?

I'll probably wait to swap the motor for now but likely swap to one whenever this pump wears out.

Looks like one of the valves is already or was leaking. Ball valves tend to fail and aren't readily repaired.

 

[superdave5599]

Looks like one of the valves is already or was leaking. Ball valves tend to fail and aren't readily repaired.

I think that is just mess from a previous owner doing something; neither valve leaked water. Unless I'm missing something, that also seems like maybe something I could upgrade down the road when one does (eventually..) fail.

Any thoughts on the other questions?

Are the two filters, the Hayward and Pentair, mostly 6 the one, half dozen the other?

Anyone have thoughts about the Doheny's option? Harris 73080 Sand Filter Tank with Valve, 31 in - Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast


Thanks!

 

[superdave5599]

What is the correct name for the unions that allow me to disconnect the pipes from the filter valve? There is one of them for each of the three filter ports. I think I want to use some kind of disconnectible unions for the stubs that come through the wall to the left, before there isn't enough stub to cut off anymore!

I'm starting to convince myself it would be worthwhile to rework all the plumbing to clean up previous owner's "handiwork" (and my couple repairs to that handiwork last year). Including the Jandy valve. The one reason I could think of to keep the current ball valve setup, is when winterizing the pool, I blew air through the main drain then closed the ball valve (skimmer valve already closed), and also capped the pipe. Would the Jandy allow this in the future? Can it turn in such a way to cut off both pipes, without connecting the two?

In addition, I believe I'll need to order at least one connection for the salt cell and that is special and glued in, along with the part for the flow switch. I cannot figure out any use for that pipe that goes straight up in front of the flow switch... It almost looks like a water hammer arrester attempt. Or maybe it worked with an old chlorination system or something and was just capped? Any reason to not eliminate that as I consider recreating everything?

 

[superdave5599]

Here's a better view of what I'm dealing with as far as the space goes. As you can see, this is all under the deck for the back door. Current filter is roughly 30 inches tall and there's about 16 inches to the bottom of the beam, top-mount valve models are close to 48 inches tall (I assume with valve, so I'm stuck with the more expensive side valve models. It would have been annoying trying to look at the valve anyway. Most of the mess of this setup was from previous owner's handiwork, but I'll acknowledge the sloppy epoxy mess that was an attempt to limp the filter along because we couldn't close the pool until mid-December and I needed to keep things from freezing. (And why I need to change it now!) In retrospect, I probably should have thought to turn the valve to bypass the filter for that time.






Here's a close up of the unions I'd like to get again, the ball socket design offers a little bit of flexibility that is nice/has been necessary to hook up the SWG. I'm still struggling to come up with the proper search term to find this exact thing. Can someone help me out on that?



Close up of the seemingly unneeded T I would like to eliminate. Or is it doing something I don't realize?



And a close up of the valve mess left by a previous owner. I think I'll need to find another union just like that one to be able to remove everything. Or break away some more of that cinder block wall to access some more pipe! Anyone care to take a guess at what exactly that union is?

 

[superdave5599]

How does my shopping list for this project look? (Screenshot of cart below)

I figure I can get the stuff for the more generic plumbing connections from the local place(s), including extending out the two stubs that go into the wall and all that. May add one or two more self-aligning unions just to make sure I have what I need.

Any other suggestions of things to consider here?

Thanks!

 

[superdave5599]

I still am curious about the "T" that looks sort of like a water hammer... Any reason to not eliminate that?

 

[proavia]

For the pressure gauge, get a glycerine filled gauge that reads 0-30.

Use Jandy Never-Lube 2-way or 3-way valves as needed. Don't use ball valves.

Use high temperature unions at the pump and multiport valve similar to these:

Amazon.com

 

[Newdude]

I still am curious about the "T" that looks sort of like a water hammer... Any reason to not eliminate that?

Chop away while youre out there cutting and gluing. It would suck to have to revisit it a year from now when it sprung a leak.

It was something once, no telling what it was for now.

 

[superdave5599]

For the pressure gauge, get a glycerine filled gauge that reads 0-30.

Use Jandy Never-Lube 2-way or 3-way valves as needed. Don't use ball valves.

Use high temperature unions at the pump and multiport valve similar to these:

Amazon.com

Having a hard time finding a gauge like you suggest. Finding either higher PSI readings, or not glycerine filled.

Anyone have a link?

 

[proavia]

Here's one

Bottom-mounted Pressure Gauge

tftestkits.net

Google - glycerin filled pressure gauge 0-30 psi
for lots of others

 

[superdave5599]

Here's one

Bottom-mounted Pressure Gauge

tftestkits.net

Google - glycerin filled pressure gauge 0-30 psi
for lots of others

Ha ha, I guess I should have been more specific with my google terms. I was looking on the site with that whole shopping cart to order along with everything else, and their search wasn't that great for this, for some reason. Kept taking me to a page wanting me to select my filter manufacturer and go from there.

I happily just ordered that one from TF Test Kits; happy to support them with that. I only wish I'd noticed gauges the other day, when I ordered my fresh supply of reagents!

 

[superdave5599]

Welp, I gave the two local pool stores a chance to quote anywhere near the price I found online. Both initial quotes were much higher than the online total, so I sent it to the lower of the two and asked how close they could come. He called this morning to say that the price was lower than he could get the filter for... So I clicked the order button this morning. Can't wait to get started on this project in the next week or two!