Pool Pump Air Confusion

[Jimrahbe]

Oak,

That pool water pic looks much better, but we still have the problem of 'what is clogging the filter'???

What pool store products do you currently add to your pool? With a SWCG, you should not need anything other than Muriatic Acid, to control pH, and salt, if the salt level goes down.. What other 'magic' chemicals are you using??

Just as a reference... The TFP way to run a pool says your FC (chlorine) is way too low. With a CYA of 80 your minimum FC is 4 ppm and your target range is 6 to 11 ppm.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,

That pool water pic looks much better, but we still have the problem of 'what is clogging the filter'???

What pool store products do you currently add to your pool? With a SWCG, you should not need anything other than Muriatic Acid, to control pH, and salt, if the salt level goes down.. What other 'magic' chemicals are you using??

Just as a reference... The TFP way to run a pool says your FC (chlorine) is way too low. With a CYA of 80 your minimum FC is 4 ppm and your target range is 6 to 11 ppm.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,

Is the pressure being at 1-2psi at 1500rpm indicate that the filter is clogging? I need to find a new replacement too since the unicel doesn’t fit.

The only thing we’ve been getting from the pool store is muriatic acid, we haven’t had to add any salt to the pool but we have salt on hand whenever we do. We recently bought floc out to see if we can remove whatever little particles are hanging around on the surface but we haven’t used it yet.

So we should raise the chlorine levels to a minimum of 6? We were just following the ideal chart from pinch a penny because of the whole warranty thing to have a record of keeping “ideal” levels. I remember someone telling us that we can keep the chlorine levels lower in the winter but I’m not sure if that’s true, and it wasn’t like we were trying to either.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Is the pressure being at 1-2psi at 1500rpm indicate that the filter is clogging?

Oak,

No... 1 to 2 PSI with a clean filter sounds good to me... Having to clean the filter once a week sounds like the filter is quickly clogging..

Here is the point... If you had a mechanical issue, you'd have high filter pressure all the time. Since it is good after you clean the filter, what else could cause the pressure to go up, other than the filter doing what filters do, capturing things in the water..?

Do NOT add any Floc.. it will just make things worse.

I suggest that you continue to run your new schedule and see what happens.. Keep your eye on the filter pressure and the air under the pump lid..

You might want to think about getting a good test kit, so you can test you own pool water on the spot. This would allow you to do what is called an OCLT. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. When we suspect that a pool might have algae, we run the OCLT Test to determine if algae is present in the pool water. If it is, we use the same test kit to run a 'SLAM' to eliminate the algae.

I use the TF-Pro, from TF-Test kits and really like it.

You should check out our Pool School..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,

No... 1 to 2 PSI with a clean filter sounds good to me... Having to clean the filter once a week sounds like the filter is quickly clogging..

Here is the point... If you had a mechanical issue, you'd have high filter pressure all the time. Since it is good after you clean the filter, what else could cause the pressure to go up, other than the filter doing what filters do, capturing things in the water..?

Do NOT add any Floc.. it will just make things worse.

I suggest that you continue to run your new schedule and see what happens.. Keep your eye on the filter pressure and the air under the pump lid..

You might want to think about getting a good test kit, so you can test you own pool water on the spot. This would allow you to do what is called an OCLT. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. When we suspect that a pool might have algae, we run the OCLT Test to determine if algae is present in the pool water. If it is, we use the same test kit to run a 'SLAM' to eliminate the algae.

I use the TF-Pro, from TF-Test kits and really like it.

You should check out our Pool School..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,

Great advice! I just got home and I checked the pump lid, a little bit more air than this morning but not significant. PSI on filter is officially at a 2 now. Skimmer sock has been collecting some stuff since yesterday but not a ton yet.
I only knew to clean the filter once it hit 15 psi, which is what the pool contractor told us to do. But that’s with it running at 2000+ rpm, the psi never sat below 8 when running at that speed. So if I wait to clean it at 15psi, I have longer to go from 1-2 until that number. Does 15 psi sound right to clean it at?

I’ll be looking into those testing kits tonight. The only one I have is strips (recommended by pool contractor) and a pinch a penny 5 way kit specifically for chlorine, bromine, ph, alk and acid demand.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Oak,

At this point I would not worry about the specific PSI that tells you when to clean the filter, but rather how the system is working..

Stick your hand in front of one of your pool returns and get a feel for how much force is behind the water coming out.

As the filter gets dirty the flow will decrease and you should be able to feel a significant decrease when the filter is dirty. Also.. what started this whole thread was air in your pump basket. As the filter gets dirty, I think you will see the air under the pump lid come back.

You can, of course, just ramp the pump speed up and then see what the filter gauge shows at your old speed.

I guess my point is I do not like doing things just because of some magic number.. I like doing things when the actual operation of the pool tells me they need to be done. I don't care what the filter pressure gauges shows, as long as I have good flow back to the pool, I see no reason to clean the filter. Keep in mind that as the filter gets dirty, your filter pressure will go up, and your flow will decrease, but it is up to you to decide what the 'dirty' pressure should be, not some number that your pool builder found while picking his nose..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,

At this point I would not worry about the specific PSI that tells you when to clean the filter, but rather how the system is working..

Stick your hand in front of one of your pool returns and get a feel for how much force is behind the water coming out.

As the filter gets dirty the flow will decrease and you should be able to feel a significant decrease when the filter is dirty. Also.. what started this whole thread was air in your pump basket. As the filter gets dirty, I think you will see the air under the pump lid come back.

You can, of course, just ramp the pump speed up and then see what the filter gauge shows at your old speed.

I guess my point is I do not like doing things just because of some magic number.. I like doing things when the actual operation of the pool tells me they need to be done. I don't care what the filter pressure gauges shows, as long as I have good flow back to the pool, I see no reason to clean the filter. Keep in mind that as the filter gets dirty, your filter pressure will go up, and your flow will decrease, but it is up to you to decide what the 'dirty' pressure should be, not some number that your pool builder found while picking his nose..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I just went and checked the flow coming from the jets, and I’d say the one I can reach is pretty weak. It’s the furthest from the pump about 60ft away and we have the bubbler and two other jets before it gets to that furthest away one. We’re also not sure which way the jets should be facing, I think they’re aiming at like middle of the water range.

I think I’ll need to change my entire thinking of how to handle this pool haha. Pretty sure most of the advice we got from the beginning isn’t very accurate so I’m glad I’m on here learning it all.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Oak,

I like to point all the pool returns so that they try to make all the water in the pool swirl, like a very slow flushing toilet bowel. I like to have them pointed up, a little..

It appears you have two return lines.. One goes to your pool returns (Eyeballs) and the other goes to your 'fountain'.. As test, you should shut off the valve marked as fountain and see what happens to the flow at the pool returns and also your filter pressure.. It will not hurt anything and you can always just set it back to where it is now. I think it just makes sense to understand what effect each valve will have on pool operation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,

I like to point all the pool returns so that they try to make all the water in the pool swirl, like a very slow flushing toilet bowel. I like to have them pointed up, a little..

It appears you have two return lines.. One goes to your pool returns (Eyeballs) and the other goes to your 'fountain'.. As test, you should shut off the valve marked as fountain and see what happens to the flow at the pool returns and also your filter pressure.. It will not hurt anything and you can always just set it back to where it is now. I think it just makes sense to understand what effect each valve will have on pool operation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,

After sticking my arm into the pool again, and no feeling left in my arm afterward, shutting off the fountain doubles the flow coming out of the furthest away eyeballs. It’s still fairly weak though, it’s not pushing my hand or anything like it used to at the high rpms. It looks like all the eyeballs are slightly tilted up and aiming toward the skimmer.

Unfortunately our pool design doesn’t allow us access to the two other ones since the cage comes down on the copings on the waters edge.

The filter pressure changed by 1 psi when turning off the fountain. I did notice some bubbles came out of the furthest eyeball when the fountain was turned off but only right afterward.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Oak,

Why do you run the bubbler?

I suggest that you run for a week or so at your current speed and then check back in and tell us if the filter pressure has gone up much or if your air bubbles come back.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[wireform]

Oak,
This conversation will go on forever without resolve due to the fact you're not doing your own testing. Get one of the two kits but my preference is the tf-100pro as it has everything in the deal. Pinch a penny is great for the warranty aspect but nothing here we can run with. Please order today and it'll be at your door in no time. The fact you have a low chlorine level isn't very comforting with the higher CYA as mentioned before. Checking the flow with the rpms @1500 may not be an indication to you since you've never run the system like that before. The
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test is your best friend when unsure of why did you loose chlorine or why does my filter pressure go high if I just cleaned it a week ago.

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,

Why do you run the bubbler?

I suggest that you run for a week or so at your current speed and then check back in and tell us if the filter pressure has gone up much or if your air bubbles come back.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,

We run the fountain to give the water some movement, if we leave it off it’s pretty much stagnant. I’m going to continue the schedule as it’s set right now and watch it until next Friday which will be a week. I’m not going to touch anything or test anything until I see the result of what happens with this schedule, then I’ll test main drain off and just skimmer on followed by the opposite. You’ve been a tremendous help so I thank you immensely. Hopefully some good news later this week!

 

[oakpoolview]

Oak,
This conversation will go on forever without resolve due to the fact you're not doing your own testing. Get one of the two kits but my preference is the tf-100pro as it has everything in the deal. Pinch a penny is great for the warranty aspect but nothing here we can run with. Please order today and it'll be at your door in no time. The fact you have a low chlorine level isn't very comforting with the higher CYA as mentioned before. Checking the flow with the rpms @1500 may not be an indication to you since you've never run the system like that before. The
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test is your best friend when unsure of why did you loose chlorine or why does my filter pressure go high if I just cleaned it a week ago.

I totally agree, I was being naive believing the test results from the pool store and cheap strips. I’ve heard of the TF-100 kits prior to this thread so I’ll definitely buy it.

The only thing I know about the flow is it’s very weak coming from the furthest eyeball like a little stronger than spitting water but when the bubbler is turned off, it’s about double as strong but still pretty weak. If I aimed the eyeball directly up at the surface of the water, I doubt it would make the water ripple.

Also could the low chlorine be because they told me to run the SWG at 40%? The chlorine stays pretty stable from week to week (bringing it to the pool store to test) but when it started going up, they had me lower it again.

 

[wireform]

SWCG's are the maintenance side of chlorination that's all going to work if there's no algae but if you have an algae bloom in the works it can't keep the water chlorinated. You need the kit and well help you get going. You can raise the chlorine level by upping the % until the kit arrives so the water doesn't further deteriorate.

 

[oakpoolview]

Hi everyone,
Still going through the testing phase this week but I have another quick question. Is it normal for the pump to randomly reprime itself during the day? I noticed a couple times today that the fountain was taller than normal so I go out to the pump area and notice the rpm’s are high and psi is at 10-12 while they’ve been at 2-3psi while running at the 1500rpm. After a few minutes it goes back down to normal, but I noticed it happening twice today. There’s not a ton of air in the pump lid right now so I’m not sure what’s causing it to ramp up rpm’s on its own.

 

[wireform]

Can you please re-read what you wrote and make the corrections so we can further assist you.

 

[oakpoolview]

Can you please re-read what you wrote and make the corrections so we can further assist you.

Edited.

 

[wireform]

I bet the automation has some schedule causing that.

 

[ajw22]

PSI is proportional to pump speed. I would not worry about PSI. It is an effect of the RPM increasing.

Look into your IQPump01 schedules and setting as it is likely commanding the pump RPM to increase. A pump does not go rogue and do it on its own.

 

[generessler]

This is a tangent and I know some here don't think it's worthwhile, but time and again I find my simple flow meter to be useful. No need to guess based on pressure. Much better than holding fingers in front of return jets. Not super expensive. All of 15 minutes to install.

 

[oakpoolview]

@ajw22 + @wireform

Just went outside and took a screenshot of the schedule (I have to go to the automation controller and click it to wifi every time to access the controls and schedules). Yesterday when I noticed the fountain going higher than normal, the psi on the filter higher than it’s been, and the humming of the pump higher than it’s been it was around 9am and 7:30pm. Both times it was only for a few minutes. The only time it should be going up to 3000rpm is at 4pm for 15 minutes. I’ll have to try catching it happening and see what the app says, like if it’s saying it’s priming or something.