Spa slowly draining in freeze protection mode

voidpointer

Gold Supporter
Oct 8, 2020
572
Prosper, TX
Pool Size
19440
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Current air temp is 12F and expected to remain below freezing for the next 3 days or so. This is the first time my freeze protection has been running this long. I woke up this morning and noticed my spa water is just below the tile with maybe 2-3" of plaster visible. Based on my searching (here), it looks like water is draining from the spa during the transition between spa <-> pool every few minutes.

One idea from the thread was to lower the VSP and make freeze protection engage spillover mode instead. Assuming this is the solution to my problem, can someone guide me through what changes I need to make to my Jandy system?
 
Couple of additional things:

1. My aqualink panel is already set up to use spillover, it's just not tied to freeze protection in any way
2. I am noticing that even though freeze protection is active, my scheduled spillover mode still comes on. I have this setup to run about 30 minutes twice a day. For the run this morning, it's filling the spa back up. Is this all that is needed to keep the spa full? Will there be any damage or discoloration to the plaster that gets exposed to air for a period of time?
3. The pump speed settings have not been changed for any winter-related stuff. So if it's important to run the pump at a lower speed in the winter for spillover, I'd like to know the best way to set that up. Hopefully it can be done in a way that doesn't interfere with the speeds I set up for the summer.
 
As reassuring as it is to hear this, can you explain how things are fine when the spa is draining?
Just some leakage back to the pool as the valves turn.

Your spillover refills the spa in a few hours.

I would not run the spillover for 30 minutes in freezing conditions. Just run it long enough to refill the spa.
 
I would not run the spillover for 30 minutes in freezing conditions. Just run it long enough to refill the spa
Does that mean it's expected that I will be tinkering with my schedule based on the seasons every year? Might not be a big deal, but it's kind of a pain. I wish Jandy had "seasonal" schedules or schedule profiles, so I could easily remember those settings in the software.

EDIT: Looking at my schedule, it was actually running 20 minutes twice a day (9AM and 3PM). I changed it to run for 10 minutes three times a day (9AM, 3PM, 3AM). I didn't time it, but it's about 5-10 minutes to fill it back up. Hopefully that's good enough and maybe I can just keep these settings in the summer for chlorine circulation to the spa.
 
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Lots of things we wish Jandy Aqualink did.
 
@voidpointer - so while your pool is in freeze protection mode is your spillover schedule still working? I have the same issue with the spa level dropping about 1/2 inch with each 30 minute transition from pool to spa and back during freeze protection for my Jandy ePump. My experience for the 5 winters we have had this pool is that freeze protection overrides all other schedules and even though I have spillover programmed to come on, if freeze protection is running, there is no spillover. It would be nice if I could program spillover into the freeze protection mode for about a minute each cycle but to my knowledge that is not an option. If you are able to get spillover to work during freeze protection mode, please let me know.
 
@voidpointer - so while your pool is in freeze protection mode is your spillover schedule still working? I have the same issue with the spa level dropping about 1/2 inch with each 30 minute transition from pool to spa and back during freeze protection for my Jandy ePump. My experience for the 5 winters we have had this pool is that freeze protection overrides all other schedules and even though I have spillover programmed to come on, if freeze protection is running, there is no spillover. It would be nice if I could program spillover into the freeze protection mode for about a minute each cycle but to my knowledge that is not an option. If you are able to get spillover to work during freeze protection mode, please let me know.
Yep my spillover comes on via schedule with freeze protection running
 
Yep my spillover comes on via schedule with freeze protection running
I would love to know how to do that. I spoke with the reps at Zodiac about iAquaLink and they told me you can’t get spillover into the freeze protection protocol. Did you do anything special to hack it? Please send me a screen shot of what you have on the freeze protection options. I can’t find spillover as an option.
 
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I went through this recently on my system (recently had Aqualink automation installed). This occurs if I enable Freeze Protection on the pool and spa, because it causes the system to cycle between pool and spa every so many minutes and (depending on your return valve settings) some water is lost from the spa on each switch.

I considered two separate ways of dealing with this.

First method is to 'cam' the return valve actuator so that when the system is in pool mode, it does return some small amount of water to the spa (like 90% pool, 10% spa). You lose some spa water on each cycling of the valves, but it gets replenished by the 10% spa flow when the system cycles back into pool mode. If you're already doing this and are still draining the spa on each cycle, then you either need more spa return flow (80/20, etc) or you have another issue.

I don't like this approach for a couple of reasons:
* It means I have go out and partially disassemble the valve actuator to adjust/cam every time a hard freeze comes and goes (because during normal weather, I do not want to return water to spa in pool mode).
* I personally don't like cycling the spillway during a hard freeze, I don't want it to ice up between the cycles. My stonework is already in less than perfect condition and I don't want to take any chances.

So here's what I did instead. Not saying this is best, just what I did. I only engage freeze protection on the pool (not the spa). This ensures the pump comes on at low temps, but does not cycle between pool and spa mode. Then, I used the manual rocker switch on the bottom of the return valve actuator to manually set it to 90% pool / 10% spa and then leave the rocker switch in the middle/neutral position. With the rocker switch in this position, the valve actuator ignores any automation calls from the system. So I have a gentle spillover 24/7 and no risk of the spa draining, barring other unforeseen issues. This keeps water flowing in all pipes except for the spa drain (spa suction into pump). I wrapped that one pipe with a towel, covered equipment with a tarp, and put a 40 watt incandescent bulb under the tarp using a hanging work light fixture. So far so good, knock on wood. With this approach I do have to visit the pad to setup the towel/tarp/light, but I don't have to touch my automation schedule, and I don't have to disassemble any Jandy valve actuators to cam them. When the hard freeze is over, all I need to do is remove the tarp and flick the rocker switch on the valve actuator so it goes back to its normal scheduled operation.

I wouldn't do all this for a quick overnight light freeze, but this is what I'm doing for our current multi-day hard freeze.
 
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So far the normal freeze protection mode with spillover 3 times a day is working fine. I don't feel like there's any issue with ice forming on the spillover tiles... not much ice has formed anyway. I could see it being a problem if we went weeks with these temps though... the ice might built up so much that the water can't spill over anymore (at least not in the direction its supposed to).

Unrelated but while we're talking about things I'm learning. My skimmer weir doors have iced up so they don't move anymore. Water still seems to be getting into the skimmer though, so they aren't sucking air. What preventative measures should I take for this next time? Simply remove the doors? Stick pool noodles in to keep the door pushed down or something? Anything I can do about them already being frozen?
 
On Aqualink you enable SPILLOVER mode turning on dipswitch 3 which then makes AUX3 into your SPILLOVER on/off.

Is there a way to configure intellicenter to enable spillover and allow the spa to fill back up while in freeze protection?
 
My spillover was working in freeze protection. But it only seemed to work when it was in pool circulation mode. During the time it switches to spa mode, spillover will not run. The behavior was a little wonky but my spa was definitely filling up. I could also see it working from my cameras during the scheduled times.
 
My spillover was working in freeze protection. But it only seemed to work when it was in pool circulation mode. During the time it switches to spa mode, spillover will not run. The behavior was a little wonky but my spa was definitely filling up. I could also see it working from my cameras during the scheduled times.
That is correct behavior.

SPILLOVER mode only works when in POOL mode.
 
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I agree changing the cam as a temporary solution is not ideal so my hack was to see how long it took in freeze protection running before the spa level was close to the spa jets requiring the spillover to replenish the spa level. For me this was about 5 hours so in my "hack" to be conservative I used 4 hours as my default. Knowing the spillover will only run in the 30 minutes the pool mode is active I need to know when that window is and program the spillover in my schedule 6 times a day (every four hours) for 2 minutes. For this I need to know when the temp drops low enough to activate the freeze protection and look at the iAquaLink app to see when pool mode is running. I already have the 6 spillovers scheduled in my Group B program, it is merely a matter of changing the start times. For example freeze protection is on and pool mode ran from 11 a.m to 11:30 a.m. then I scheduled spillover to come on for two minutes at 11:15 a.m., 3:15 pm, 7:15 pm, 11:15 pm, 3:15 am and 7:15 am. Takes just a few minutes to alter the start and stop times on the schedule but I did not have to worry during the night or day if the spa level dropped too far. So as the temps will again drop this weekend, I will activate Group B program and alter the stop and start times of the spillover. Not perfect but it is a solution that works for me.
 
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