Clarification on SPA mode, Pool mode and Spillway mode

[venexiano]

By reading a bunch of old posts I see that in a pool-spa system there is a return valve and a suction valve. Actuators of valves can only have two positions, pool mode (spa pipe is closed, pool is open), and spa mode (vice versa). Therefore:

In the Omnilogic Pool mode all the water gets sucked from the pool and returned to the pool. No water goes to the spa.
In the Omnilogic Spa mode all the water gets sucked from the Spa and returned to the Spa.
In the Omnilogic Spillover mode all the water gets sucked from the pool and returned to the Spa. One adjusts the amount of spillover by adjusting the speed of the VS pump. You suggest us to run this mode twice a day for half an hour or so each time to refresh stagnant spa water.

I will install Omnilogic with a salt water chlorinator. My questions are:

1) In a post some of you say "In spa mode, no fresh water ever gets into the spa." What does it mean? What is "fresh" water? I imagine you mean recirculated filtered water. Filtering is happening in the spa, so I do not get this. Or are you maybe referring to a non-salt-water pool, in which chlorine is manually added only to the pool and not the spa?

2) Instead of running Pool mode all the time except twice a day for half an hour in Spillway mode, can I maybe run Pool mode all the time except twice a day in which I run Spa mode for half an hour to refresh spa water?

3) For those big events in which I wanna heat up the pool to 85 deg in winter (I have gas heater 400k BTU, 20000 gallons it will take about 10-15 hours from 50 degrees in winter), how would you set up this? Should I still just run in pool mode for 10-15 hours and have two 30 mins per day spillway mode to recirculate the spa water (with heater if no planning to use spa). Or should I do 30 mins spa mode with heater off, so I do not waste heat (again, if no planning to use spa)?

4) If in a winter night I want for a 2-3 hours the spa at 100 deg and pool at 85, what do you suggest me to do? To run pool mode with heater on for 10-15 hours to reach 85 in pool, as in point above, and then 30 mins before we wanna use the spa I turn on spa mode with heater, and I keep using spa mode the next 2 hours to keep 104 deg? I am afraid pool temperature will decrease, but probably over 2-3 hours is negligible. Otherwise if I notice pool temperature to decrease, should I setup up some ~10 mins pool circulation interval every hour to keep the 85 deg temperature in the pool?

5) Do you suggest me to install a make up valve for the spa, or useless since I have automation?

6) Brand and model of return and suction valve you suggest me?

Thank you

Venexiano

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ven,

What you said above is "technically" correct, but not how 99% of the pools are set up.

In the Pool mode, there is almost always a spillover unless you turn it off. This spillover is due to either a make-up valve which by passes the Return valve and allows some water to go to the spa, or the Return valve is mechanically set so that it never fully closes off the spa line when in the Pool mode.

The whole reason for the spillover is to keep the water in the spa fresh. Without a spillover, if you just used the Pool mode, no spa water would ever go through the filter, nor would it get replaced by fresh pool water.

When you have the Spillway mode set up in your automation, you don't have the constant spillover, so you schedule the Spillway mode, to run once or twice a day for a total of an hour or so.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ven,

When you have the Spillway mode set up in your automation, there is no constant spillover. You will only get the spillover if you turn if on via the automaton.

In the Pool mode the heater will only heat the pool.
In the Spa mode the heater will only heat the spa.
In the Spillway mode the heater will heat both the pool and the spa. (And you will go broke... )

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

In the Spillway mode the heater will heat both the pool and the spa. (And you will go broke... )

Nah, you will spend just about the same heating the pool in POOL mode or SPILLWAY mode.

Let's say the pool is 20,000 gallons and the spa is 500-1000 gallons. So you are heating up maybe 5% more water in SPILLWAY mode then in POOL mode. Not enough to break the bank.

 

[ajw22]

In the Omnilogic Pool mode all the water gets sucked from the pool and returned to the pool. No water goes to the spa.
In the Omnilogic Spa mode all the water gets sucked from the Spa and returned to the Spa.
In the Omnilogic Spillover mode all the water gets sucked from the pool and returned to the Spa. One adjusts the amount of spillover by adjusting the speed of the VS pump. You suggest us to run this mode twice a day for half an hour or so each time to refresh stagnant spa water.

That is all correct.

1) In a post some of you say "In spa mode, no fresh water ever gets into the spa." What does it mean? What is "fresh" water?

Fresh water water that is filtered and chlorinated. by the pool equipment

I imagine you mean recirculated filtered water. Filtering is happening in the spa, so I do not get this.

When the spillway is not running the spa water is sitting still losing chlorine to the suns UV and getting dirt blown into it.

When you run the SPILLWAY mode you push cleaner higher chlorine water from the pool into the spa and dump the low chlorine dirty spa water over the spillway into the pool where it willl be mixed with the poolw ater and runt hrough the equipment.

Or are you maybe referring to a non-salt-water pool, in which chlorine is manually added only to the pool and not the spa?

It is the same for any type of pool with a spillway.

2) Instead of running Pool mode all the time except twice a day for half an hour in Spillway mode, can I maybe run Pool mode all the time except twice a day in which I run Spa mode for half an hour to refresh spa water?

You can but it can take more then a half hour run to filter and chlorinate the spa in isolation. And then you you have the pH of the still spa water that may have changed.

The pool water has the best water chemistry. The easiest is to dump the spa water and replace it with the better pool water.

Especially if the spa has been used by some people and all of their body dirt and oils are in the spa water.

3) For those big events in which I wanna heat up the pool to 85 deg in winter (I have gas heater 400k BTU, 20000 gallons it will take about 10-15 hours from 50 degrees in winter), how would you set up this? Should I still just run in pool mode for 10-15 hours and have two 30 mins per day spillway mode to recirculate the spa water (with heater if no planning to use spa). Or should I do 30 mins spa mode with heater off, so I do not waste heat (again, if no planning to use spa)?

Just let your normal spillway schedule run while heating the pool. The spa water is a small percentage of water volume compared to the pool.

4) If in a winter night I want for a 2-3 hours the spa at 100 deg and pool at 85, what do you suggest me to do? To run pool mode with heater on for 10-15 hours to reach 85 in pool, as in point above, and then 30 mins before we wanna use the spa I turn on spa mode with heater, and I keep using spa mode the next 2 hours to keep 104 deg? I am afraid pool temperature will decrease, but probably over 2-3 hours is negligible. Otherwise if I notice pool temperature to decrease, should I setup up some ~10 mins pool circulation interval every hour to keep the 85 deg temperature in the pool?

If you just want to use the spa then put your system in SPA mode and turn the heater on and just heat the SPA.

When you are done with the spa turn the heater off.

Your next SPILLWAY schedule will dump the used spa water into the pool and refresh your spa with pool water ready for your next spa use.

5) Do you suggest me to install a make up valve for the spa, or useless since I have automation?

A makeup vale is useless with automation.

You just run SPILLWAY when you want to "makeup" the spa.

6) Brand and model of return and suction valve you suggest me?

Jandy, Pentair, Hayward, and CMP are all the same.

 

[venexiano]

Thank you, all clear. As for the valves, I meant what is the name of the valves? Check valves? Y-Check valves? Automation check valve? Any link to one of them please?

 

[Jimrahbe]

As for the valves, I meant what is the name of the valves? Check valves? Y-Check valves? Automation check valve? Any link to one of them please?

Ven,

Show us several pics of your equipment pad and maybe we can figure out what you are talking about???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Thank you, all clear. As for the valves, I meant what is the name of the valves? Check valves? Y-Check valves? Automation check valve? Any link to one of them please?

3-way diverter valves are used to switch from POOL to SPA on return and suction...

Never Lube Jandy Valve: Jandy Pro Series Valve | Jandy

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With a valve actuator screwed top for automation control...

Pool Valve Actuator: Jandy Valve Actuator | Jandy

Looking for a Pool Valve Actuator? Find the Jandy Valve Actuator for the Perfect Pool Experience. Buy Now w/ a Pool Pro Near You!

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Jandy, Pentair, Hayward all have their models of these.

 

[venexiano]

Thank you Ajw for the valves, all clear. I still have a questions. Jim says "In the Pool mode, there is almost always a spillover unless you turn it off. This spillover is due to either a make-up valve which by passes the Return valve and allows some water to go to the spa, or the Return valve is mechanically set so that it never fully closes off the spa line when in the Pool mode." You guys suggested me not to have make-up valve. Also, you guys said valve can either have full return from spa or full return from pool, while Jim says you can " mechanically set return valve so that it never fully closes". I will have automation, so I do not think that is possible. Are you saying that without automation it is not on and off only, but partial closures are allowed?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ven,

That statement is about how most pool builders build a pool and spa. Pool builders almost never set up the Spillway mode in the automation.. They use a make-up valve or they offset the Return valve... They will do this even if you have an automation system, unless you tell them not to..

The key in my mind is that if you want to use the automation's Spillover mode, then you don't want any other spillover. So you would shut off any make-up valve and make sure the Return valve is set to shut off all the water going to the spa when in the Pool mode.

Automated valves only moves from one stop to the other stop.. The stops are normally set for a 180 degree rotation. But.. both stops can be mechanically set to anything in between.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[venexiano]

All clear thank you. About to start the project. To achieve what I mention above (and I copy below for your convenience) I need a SINGLE 3-way diverter valve (with a valve actuator screwed top for automation control), not two of them correct? When I spoke to a contractor about only having a valve he said "weird you should need 2".

 

[ajw22]

All clear thank you. About to start the project. To achieve what I mention above (and I copy below for your convenience) I need a SINGLE 3-way diverter valve (with a valve actuator screwed top for automation control), not two of them correct? When I spoke to a contractor about only having a valve he said "weird you should need 2".

Have you or your builder draw pictures of where one valve would be placed or where your builder thinks two valves would be placed. Share the pictures with us.

The devil is in the details of how the plumbing will be done.

You need a diagram, not words, on what will be done.

 

[mas985]

My pool has only an automation spillover and no plumbed spillover. I just setup a time schedule in the controller to run it once per day for an hour. In reality, I only need to run it about half that time to replace the water in the spa as it is only 700 gallons.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ven,

Sorry, I kind of got lost on this one...

I can't think of a way that you would only need a single 3-way to be able to switch between the Pool mode and the Spa mode.

To switch modes, you need to be able to control both the Intake 3-way valve and the Return 3-way valve.

Your contractor is just as confused about what you want to do as we are..

Can you please explain to me why the standard pool/spa plumbing set up will not work for you?

Thanks,

Jim R.