Pool builder closing mistakes - how to prove they cause if cracks, leaks, etc.?

[rozus]

PB closed my pool last year. They did a terrible job. They didn’t winterize heater, they didn’t even take the salt salt out. They put a lot of algecides, God knows what else they put. They haven’t put gizmo or anything in the skimmers either!

I wanted to do it myself this year for the first time. I was planning to buy the cyclone pool line blower. My pool is a bit complicated, has in floor cleaning system, waterfalls, bubbles etc.

A pool professional recommended me to still go with PB since if something happens after closing, I could sue them for it. Is that true? How can I hold PB accountable and liable for anything bad happens like leaking, cracking etc once pool opened? Do I record a video everything functioning before closing? Do I take pics? How can I prove in courts they cause big problems? What are some of the ways to protect myself from their risky closing practices and put the liability on them? They are a big pool builder company, but they don’t respond to any emails or calls, so if Godfid smt happens, I am 100% sure that they will not return my calls unless I sue them.

They charge $500 for closing, I would rather them to do it if there is a way to prove in laws that they cause it smt bad happens. I really really appreciate any advice.

My pool is built 2 years ago. I am the 2nd owner. 25K gallon SWG, 20x40 gunite pebbletec. I maintained it throughout the summer.

Here are some pics.

 

[ajw22]

We don’t give legal advice here.

Have you ever sued someone?

Have you ever sued someone and collected on a judgement?

If you don’t trust the Pool Company to do it right then do it yourself or get someone you trust.

Planning to sue if you don’t like what they did is not a healthy business relationship.

 

[rozus]

I didn’t ask for legal advice; I am asking if anyone experienced consequences due to pool company making mistakes on closing. So you’re telling me if I hire a company for closing that I trust, and if they mess up, and I get pipes cracked because of it, I should just not pursue legal action against them. Not sure how your questions relates to my concerns. Sorry but not helpful at all.

 

[proavia]

Actually, you asked for legal advice in both posts.

A pool professional recommended me to still go with PB since if something happens after closing, I could sue them for it. Is that true? How can I hold PB accountable and liable for anything bad happens like leaking, cracking etc once pool opened? Do I record a video everything functioning before closing? Do I take pics? How can I prove in courts they cause big problems? What are some of the ways to protect myself from their risky closing practices and put the liability on them?

So you’re telling me if I hire a company for closing that I trust, and if they mess up, and I get pipes cracked because of it, I should just not pursue legal action against them.

But since we don't offer legal advice here, none was provided.
You were given sound advice on possibly choosing a course of action - either hiring someone you trust or doing it yourself.

If you don’t trust the Pool Company to do it right then do it yourself or get someone you trust.

Planning to sue if you don’t like what they did is not a healthy business relationship.

 

[rozus]

If you didn’t have any experience in what I’ve asked, then do not post in my thread. Thanks.

 

[Bperry]

If you didn’t have any experience in what I’ve asked, then do not post in my thread. Thanks.

Rozus, you can sue anyone for any reason at any time. There’s a big difference in suing them and actually getting a judgement against someone. If you are un happy with the service you got last year and it cost $500, why are you still wanting to do business with them again on the small chance that you could pay much more than $500 to hire a lawyer to take them to court IF the pool is damaged?

It’s a lot of stress and money to spend doing that when it’s easier to just hire another closing company.

 

[reggiehammond]

If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, hire a local company. Discuss and agree what they'll do before hand, then be present to confirm they did what they promised. If they did not do what they promised in agreement, or something else happens, engage a lawyer to see if you have a case.

I'm not sure I understand what the question is?

 

[rozus]

Rozus, you can sue anyone for any reason at any time. There’s a big difference in suing them and actually getting a judgement against someone. If you are un happy with the service you got last year and it cost $500, why are you still wanting to do business with them again on the small chance that you could pay much more than $500 to hire a lawyer to take them to court IF the pool is damaged?

It’s a lot of stress and money to spend doing that when it’s easier to just hire another closing company.

That is a great question. I hired them because they built the pool and they know the details of the pool since they built it. In reality, even if I go with another pool service company for closing, they might still make mistakes, and things can go south. I wanted to stay with a big company like the one I wasn’t happy with, and in case something happens I can at least pursue legal action, vs. a small company that probably won’t be able to fix it..

I wanted to do the closing myself, but the pool has many features, for instance in-floor cleaning system…What is there is a crack on one the returns of that on the floor…My pool has over 30 of them on the floor. I don’t want to take that risk. I was hoping to hire a company and can at least transfer the risk to them. In that case, I was looking for guidance in terms of how I can document before closing so that I can at least have a proof and got myself covered.

 

[ajw22]

Transferring risk is called insurance.

People buy insurance policies to transfer risk.

If you are looking to transfer risk then the other party must accept that risk.

 

[rozus]

If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, hire a local company. Discuss and agree what they'll do before hand, then be present to confirm they did what they promised. If they did not do what they promised in agreement, or something else happens, engage a lawyer to see if you have a case.

I'm not sure I understand what the question is?

The question is how can I properly document that the damage was done because of closing. How do I properly document it before closing so that I can have it handy if smt happens on opening like leaking , crack etc.. my hope is nothing bad happens, but I wanted to prepare myself and do my due diligence in properly document pool was functioning properly before closing.. I am just not sure how

 

[Brian PacNW]

Yes, document what the state of items are before they come. Pictures and writings, all dated and easily verified. Perhaps Google how to document evidence or something to that effect for future legal actions.

Look at the contract you signed for closing to see what you agreed to. In the future, ask for something in writing if they don’t already provide one. Before agreeing, ask the owner about potential issues that might arise over winter—the tech that comes won’t know. Request a list of actions and chemicals they do and add.

They may only help you once if you seem overly litigious.

I charge $200 for you reading my post.

 

[Bperry]

That is a great question. I hired them because they built the pool and they know the details of the pool since they built it. In reality, even if I go with another pool service company for closing, they might still make mistakes, and things can go south. I wanted to stay with a big company like the one I wasn’t happy with, and in case something happens I can at least pursue legal action, vs. a small company that probably won’t be able to fix it..

I wanted to do the closing myself, but the pool has many features, for instance in-floor cleaning system…What is there is a crack on one the returns of that on the floor…My pool has over 30 of them on the floor. I don’t want to take that risk. I was hoping to hire a company and can at least transfer the risk to them. In that case, I was looking for guidance in terms of how I can document before closing so that I can at least have a proof and got myself covered.

Realistically, it would be very difficult for you to prove anything that they did caused any kind of damage because if you did see them do something wrong and didn’t do anything to correct it, it would be your fault for not telling them what they did wrong. There are no licensing agencies or building codes to follow when closing a pool for the winter. The place provides a specific service for a specific fee and doesn’t guarantee anything. There’s no regulated set of rules on how to close a pool. So you can’t win a lawsuit against someone for breaking rules that don’t exist.

That’s why it’s not a good idea to hire someone to do a job that you know ahead of time won’t do a good job. Hiring them again just means you are endorsing the service they are providing.

I won’t go to a restaurant a second time if the first time made me sick, even if I could sue them for giving me food poisoning.

 

[Newdude]

I'll add that even when you can prove fault and win a judgement, it's nearly impossible to collect if the other party refuses. So you can win and still lose by a mile, both with the original issue you paid to fix with another company, and your lawyers fees to win a judgement.

The job is the job either way. If you want it done right, there's a saying about that. If nothing else, you can be sure you did all you could to reduce your risks.

 

[rozus]

While I was searching my email for the contract, I found this email from my spam folder, it says every closing comes with a freeze protect guarantee. I called them up and they haven’t responded as expected. Once I get hold of them, will dig deeper on the exclusions, and see whether I can get it add into the closing contract. I will report back here. I appreciate you all helping me go through this stressful and scary process where one single mistake or missing a step can have severe cost and consequences for winterizing a complicated pool that has so many steps; air locking drains, how much to drain concerning popping from ground, 30+ infloor cleaning system pipes, attached spa jets, waterfalls, bubblers, customized cover that is complicated to install.

 

[Newdude]

I found this email from my spam folder, it says every closing comes with a freeze protect guarantee

Guarantees / warranties have so many business friendly loopholes they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

It will not keep you out of court.

It will not make them pay a judgement against them.

It will cost you even more to put a lien on their property. If they don't move for 30 years, even THAT is worthless.

I promise you, any guarantees are feel good only. It's got the asterisk with exclusions applying right on the ad.

 

[reggiehammond]

I would also just mention that closing a pool is not typically very difficult, nor are there typically any major issues when done adequately.
Worst I recall reading is when the pool cover falls in, and the owner ignores it until June!

 

[sande005]

Your big concern is freeze damage, correct?
So, hire an independent company to verify, using leak down pressure testing, that nothing exceeds usual expectations, just before the pool company does it's closing.
Spec in the contract that all lines will be blown dry with air, antifreeze added, if you want gizmos that they will be installed (and where), what will be removed for the winter, what will be plugged, what will be airlocked, etc.
Include language that another leak test will be conducted in the spring, and that they agree to repair/replace any item that subsequently fails the testing. Be as specific as you want for the additional items - heater, heater core, valves, filters, pump housing, pipes, fittings, skimmers, etc., etc.
Then you've got documentation as to how it was, how it resulted, and their responsibility to fix.

But, be prepared for the company deciding you may be more trouble than they want.......

 

[SoDel]

I had a sorta-kinda analogous situation. My original PB also opens and closes my pool (cover is too heavy for me to move and I already do enough around the house to have this land in my wheelhouse lol). If there are any issues, the deal is I can call them to diagnose, and if it turns out it was something to do with their work, diagnosis and repair are on them, no questions asked. If it’s just a normal wear and tear type thing, like pump seals just worn out rather than freeze damaged, say, the diagnosis fee is on me and I can hire them to repair or do it myself. This Spring, there was an obvious water loss and it turned out to be one of the HRVs in a main drain basin. PB diagnosed, repaired, no charge (even though I’d say an HRV is theoretically a wear item). The company is well known in the community and has an excellent reputation for quality work and honest dealings.

Moral of the story — find a reputable company to do your winterizing who is capable of repairing any issues and who has a rep of standing behind their work. It will require some leg work talking to other local pool owners and checking reference perhaps. Or if you can, just do it yourself. You describe the company you worked with in the past as doing shoddy work and zero communication — recipe for an eventual disaster.

Talk of lawsuits is pointless IMHO. Even assuming such efforts would be successful if something went wrong, having to go to such lengths totally defeats the purpose of having “professionals” do a job.

To answer your question more directly, any company that does not respond to reasonable phone and email requests for a response would find itself deleted from my contacts list. Same for a company that has done shoddy work. Life is short. Avoid future potential lawsuits like the plague they are .

 

[sande005]

The OP seems to have at least ten pool companies in his area. Some with high google ratings, some not so much. While it might be late to get on someone else's closing schedule, some phone calls may give results, and better information about what they do do, vs what they won't do.

In my area, one local company is charging about $300 for my rather simple close. And I get to do the worst parts myself (pump it down, put on the cover). Hence why I've always done it myself.....it really isn't that hard, but takes a few hours (mostly waiting for the pool to pump down). But I get preferring to have someone else do things, it just depends on finding someone that will do it well.

 

[JamesW]

Deleted.