UPDATE - Cancelling Attempt to bring 12V light back in working order

[Raleigh999]

The family pool, installed in 1984, last had a bulb replacement done by a professional a couple years ago, which saw little usage before failing. Presumed it might simply be a bad bulb, but after personally removing it (shutting off the breaker; it's a low-voltage line), bringing it to the deck, and taking the bulb to test for continuity at the hardware store, the bulb proved not to be the problem. The in-deck junction box is incredibly corroded. Breaker is ok (the pump on the same line runs) and when flipping the light switch by the pool, a clicking sound is heard back where the pool equipment and transformers are.

I'm not familiar with what may need to be done other than a bit of research online, but presume a test for power at the the in-deck j-box is one step. There's a spa light that's out as well, which I thought I could test and if it was also not working with a good bulb, then we'd know the problem is upstream for both lights. Photos of the j-box attached - I'm not certain what I'm looking at, but it seems like 3 wires are running to the pool light (one is a ground?) and others out to the spa, but which are which, and which are the original power lines? The wingnuts are frozen, and some of the connections are done without wingnuts - just a glob of corroded metal with several wires fused to it. A mess.

All advice appreciated - I may have to back out of this challenge, and now, thinking of it, should have confirmed here first that if the transformers are bad, could this lead to full 120 coming through instead of 12V? I'm aware that I'd need to seal/putty up (underwater epoxy) the points where the conduit enters the pool and in-deck j-box, and add a new o-ring to the light and probably a new j-box gasket. Even if this job is too big and we completely give up now (we're just not interested in pool illumination enough to spend $600-1000 to have it done) does it still make sense to put on a new o-ring, new gasket, and putty all the openings back up to maybe prevent further damage? I can see there's moisture in the in-deck j-box though this might have come up from pulling on the light cables to remove the fixtures.

 

[Raleigh999]

I'm not extremely familiar with using a voltmeter, but with one now in hand it appears the transformer fuses and the bulb test good for continuity. For the in-deck jbox, I couldn't remove one of the wirenuts, but testing a bit of exposed wire (green color) on the clump of metal with wires joined to it, and the joined wires under the one wirenut successfully removed, the voltmeter's needle lightly twitched (when set to 10v and also one click above or below). Testing at the fixture had the same response.

 

[Raleigh999]

Since it's not the bulb and we do not have the time or expertise to fiddle with putting in new conduit, new fixture, and possibly new transformer, we just want to put it all away and back to how it was - fixture in place for a non-functioning light. However, now that we've undone it all, is there something others would advise about putting it all back safely, ideally not to make thing worse?

The 40-year-old fixture has corrosion around where it seals with the glass. A new o-ring could be put in, but we don't particularly care about the old light.

To be safe for the future, should underwater epoxy be used to plug up the conduit where the fixture sits, or to kill the circuit and be safe by stuffing the bulb receptacle with it, and the slightly damp in-deck junction box? Response requested soon.

 

[ajw22]

Disconnect and cap off the light power wires and screw the light back in the niche.

You can use Pool Putty to close any holes in the niche.

As long as the pool is not losing water that is all you need to do.

 

[Raleigh999]

Disconnect and cap off the light power wires and screw the light back in the niche.

You can use Pool Putty to close any holes in the niche.

As long as the pool is not losing water that is all you need to do.

Thank you, first off. The thread was merged with an earlier one as we tried the repair. Follow up questions:

1. Cap off the light power in the in-deck j-box?

2. And do this for both the pool and non-working spa lights' wires?

In the photos visible above of the in-deck j-box, it is hard to make heads or tails as to which wires do what, and the wirenuts are frozen. There seems to be moisture in there and around the opening on the cement.

3. Should the j-box be filled with putty?

 

[ajw22]

1. Cap off the light power in the in-deck j-box?

2. And do this for both the pool and non-working spa lights' wires?

In the photos visible above of the in-deck j-box, it is hard to make heads or tails as to which wires do what, and the wirenuts are frozen. There seems to be moisture in there and around the opening on the cement.

Do you know what panel and circuit breaker the J-box connects to?

Disconnect the wires connected to the CB and the neutral wire. Once you do that everything is safe.

3. Should the j-box be filled with putty?

No, that accomplishes nothing.

 

[Raleigh999]

We know the CB location and have always had the pool breaker off for this. But does "panel" refer to the electronics (and not CB) among all the pool equipment where the 12V transformer is? Or the light switch? I'll add the photos again in this post. I cannot make out what wires lead to what in the in-deck J-box, which was filled with very old putty from the original installation for some reason, even if it accomplishes nothing. Is that because it's at the deck level and moisture does get in there? Wire nuts are completely frozen.

I'd love to follow basic directions but "Disconnect the wires connected to the CB ..." (connected from where to the CB; do you mean the wires inside the J-box that go to the CB, or at the CB, or at the panel?) "... and the neutral wire" (Not sure what the neutral wire is - a ground? And how to tell which one that is?)

Please refer to the attached photos to describe what you're referring to.

 

[ajw22]

Where did this fuse come out of?

 

[ajw22]

We know the CB location and have always had the pool breaker off for this.

If you know the CB location I am asking you to disconnect the wire from the CB so no one can "accidently" turn the power backon.

But does "panel" refer to the electronics (and not CB) among all the pool equipment where the 12V transformer is? Or the light switch? I'll add the photos again in this post. I cannot make out what wires lead to what in the in-deck J-box, which was filled with very old putty from the original installation for some reason, even if accomplishes nothing. Is that because it's at the deck level and moisture does get in there? Wire nuts are completely frozen.

If you have the CB disconnected then you don;t need to disconnect anything downstream.

Show me the panel with the CB.

I'd love to follow basic directions but "Disconnect the wires connected to the CB ..." (connected from where to the CB; do you mean the wires inside the J-box that go to the CB, or at the CB, or at the panel?) "... and the neutral wire." (Not sure what the neutral wire is - a ground? And how to tell which one that is?)

Please refer to the attached photos to describe what you're referring to.

Please show me the complete wiring to the pool.

You are showing bits and pieces. Start at the circuit breaker panel and show all the wiring and connections leading to the light.

Every 120V circuit has two wires - a hot wire and a neutral wire. You need to identify the two wires that connect to the light circuit either at the circuit breaker panel or at the pool control box.

 

[ajw22]

Where are these boxes located in relation to the pool?

 

[ajw22]

Where do the wires in these boxes run to?

Where are these boxes in relation to the pool?

 

[Raleigh999]

Where did this fuse come out of?

It came out of here, one fuse inside each of the two metal boxes, each containing a transformer, presumably for the spa and pool 12v lights. It's together with the pool electronics and pump behind the house

The breaker box is elsewhere on the side of the house.

The user toggle switches for turning on lights, spa, pool pump, are in a box the size of light switch panel nearer to the pool and spa.

 

[ajw22]

I would think if you pull the green fuses from both boxes you safed off the electrical from the pool.

 

[Raleigh999]

Where are these boxes located in relation to the pool?

They're in the very back corner of the property about 20 feet from the pool's closest edge and 14 feet from the jacuzzi. They're together with the pump, timer, and other pool-running equipment. The CB is on the opposite side of the house, directly on the exterior wall of the home.

User toggle switches for flipping on pool & spa lights when desired, pump, and two other functions are on a small box the size of a light switch panel, mounted to the wall in between the pictured stuff here and the pool.

 

[Raleigh999]

If you know the CB location I am asking you to disconnect the wire from the CB so no one can "accidently" turn the power backon.



If you have the CB disconnected then you don;t need to disconnect anything downstream.

Show me the panel with the CB.




Please show me the complete wiring to the pool.

You are showing bits and pieces. Start at the circuit breaker panel and show all the wiring and connections leading to the light.

Every 120V circuit has two wires - a hot wire and a neutral wire. You need to identify the two wires that connect to the light circuit either at the circuit breaker panel or at the pool control bA

If you know the CB location I am asking you to disconnect the wire from the CB so no one can "accidently" turn the power backon.



If you have the CB disconnected then you don;t need to disconnect anything downstream.

Show me the panel with the CB.




Please show me the complete wiring to the pool.

You are showing bits and pieces. Start at the circuit breaker panel and show all the wiring and connections leading to the light.

Every 120V circuit has two wires - a hot wire and a neutral wire. You need to identify the two wires that connect to the light circuit either at the circuit breaker panel or at the pool control box.

Thanks for this - ok, so pictured first is the breaker box (the pool equipment is on the 2nd 220 switch from the top - circled - this includes pump and lights, and anything related to the pool's power). Next pic is zooming out from the breaker box to see conduits in and out.

Next, in the far opposite corner of the property, a grouping of pool equipment, with timers inside the foreground Pentair box, pump, and other electronics.
A pic of the Pentair box exterior with label.
A photo of what's inside the Pentair box - a gold-colored panel with timer and other things.
A pic of the diagram inside the Pentair box.
A pic behind the Pentair box where the transformers are. (The Pentair box looks newer by comparison.)
Pics showing what's inside the Pentair box, behind the gold panel.
(Cont. in next post due to photo limit)

 

[Raleigh999]

(Cont.)
A pic of the wiring mess below the Pentair box.
Pics of the large unit in back, dealing with pump and heating it seems.
Next, the user toggle switches on the house
Next, the in-deck (ground level) J-box in the foreground with with the pulled up pool light in the background. The fixture's cable length won't allow it quite all the way out of the pool and up onto deck.
Finally, the pool light. Adjacent spa and non-working spa light not shown.
I think (but can't be sure because it's underground) the order of where the wiring goes between all these elements is correct.

 

[Raleigh999]

I would think if you pull the green fuses from both boxes you safed off the electrical from the pool.

Will this just cut off the lights? We want the pump, filter, even spa jets, to continue working. Or does it kill all the electronics?

It looks like the transformer boxes are from a different, original era compared to the black with gold brushed aluminum interior Pentair box in front of the transformer boxes.

 

[Raleigh999]

Where do the wires in these boxes run to?

Where are these boxes in relation to the pool?

This is the in-deck junction box just outside the pool. Presumably these wires run from the electronics in the back of the property (supplied from the CB) to the user toggle switches to the J-box, and then out to the pool light and spa light. Can't be entirely sure which wire is which. It's all covered in remaining putty and corrosion and grime.

 

[ajw22]

Let's first talk about your Circuit Breakers...

I thought you would have a semi modern electrical system with separate CBs for different pool devices and a GFCI CB dedicated to the Pool Lights. Turns out you don't.

You have writing on that panel that says:

• Filter - is that your pool filter? Which Cb does Filter apply to?
• Pool - what does that circuit feed?
  • You say your lights.
  • Does it power your Compool panel?
  • What else loses power at your pool when you turn it off?
  • Does it power your heater?
  • That is the only 240V CB to the pool and your Intelliflo VS pump is 240V. Does that power your pump?
• Blower - Does that power your spa blower? Your Spa Blower power runs through a relay in the Compool panel.
• Lite?? - did someone mean Light? What light? Where? Is that the CB for your Pool Lights?

Current codes require GFCI CBs for pumps, heaters, and lights. While you are grandfathered most electricians will not work on a panel or equipment without upgrading required CBs to GFCI. For safety reasons even as a DIY homeowner you should do the same.

 

[ajw22]

Now let's talk about your equipment and Compool controls...

Your equipment is a:

• Intelliflo VS pump that should have 240V continuous power and not connected through the Compool panel.
• Light that your button panel tells us power runs through the Compool Aux2 relay
• Blower that your button panel tells us power runs through the Compool Aux1 relay
• Pentair Mini Max heater that we don't know where it's power comes from

Each block of four white connectors in the Compool panel on the right is for one device. The top four connectors are for power to the panel and the wiring diagram indicates it is wired for 240V. Which means it is powered by that 20A 240V CB.

The next four sequences of four connectors are for four relays. The first two blocks have no wires connected and are unused.

The diagram on the far right shows the sequence of the connectors is:

• LINE1
• LINE2
• LOAD1
• LOAD2

The bottom two blocks each have one wire being switched with a connection at LINE1 and LOAD1. One of them is for the light and one is for the blower. Both are 120 volts, and not 240 volts.

I doubt that 240V CB feeds the lights. The lights are 120V and are likley the 120V CB labeled LITE. An electrician would confirm this using a multimeter between the CB panel and the LINE wire connecting into the relay.

You were working on the light circuit with the CB power on and are lucky the Compool relay is OFF and not feeding electricity down to the big transformer boxes.

All that I an supposing here from your pictures should be physically confirmed by someone knowledgeable with electrical circuits and how to use a multimeter.