HI, I am new at all this

[PoolStored]

I have some sand/ dirt looking stuff that ended up near the main drain this morning. I can’t get a sample of of it because it is too fine.

errrr...this doesn't meet the third slam criteria of clear pool. IF it were ME, I get that stuff out (brush to main drain, vacuum, robot, pool blaster), continue slam one more day for insurance, and see if it shows up again in the morning.

 

[Minni]

errrr...this doesn't meet the third slam criteria of clear pool. IF it were ME, I get that stuff out (brush to main drain, vacuum, robot, pool blaster), continue slam one more day for insurance, and see if it shows up again in the morning.

Okay I brushed it down I’ll keep going. I managed to get a little out to look at. I am 95% sure it is pine pollen. The pool sits in 100 feet of 5 pine trees dropping pollen like crazy. Basically everything is covered in fine yellow stuff, I think it is just that clumping at the bottom and is prolly a loosing battle, I have come this far I can keep it going for another day.

 

[PoolStored]

Wipe some on a paper towel. Does it smudge? What color?

 

[Minni]

So I did some strange stuff to get it a sample with a conduit a vac hose and a coffee filter. It kind of looks mustard like with tinges of brown, it is organic, rinsed it away before I saw this message so I didn’t take a picture or try it on a paper towel. I just added more bleach, vacuumed and brushed.

Noticed something odd so I am glad I continued. On the side walls (which is all I can reach with my arm, might be on the bottom too) there is something, it seems to be on all the sides worse in the shade it is not visible, just something you can feel. It feel a little has a slightly slippery texture and is removable but the brush doesn’t seem to work well at getting it off even with a bunch of passes, same with the vacuum. I reached in and wiped off what I could from a section of the wall and it’s a rusty brownish color. I am guessing I still have something in there. Not sure how to get it out, total I have spent prolly 6 hours this week brushing the darn thing so I am surprised it’s still there. I feel like this is a good excuse to buy a robotic cleaner.

Any ideas?

 

[Minni]

Adding more - this is about the same color as the stuff at the bottom. It might be pollen idk. If it were algae what I would expect is it to change color when bleach is directly applied. It’s not a major difference in 12.5% sodium hypochlorite. The shade part might just be my imagination too. That just so happens to be the areas of the pool with filters and jets and features which are harder to brush, so they may have gotten less passes than other parts. That said I have an absurd amount of pollen where I live even my house and deck are yellow ish when it hasn’t rained. Pollen alone appears more of a lemon yellow. I also have no idea how it would stick to the walls of the pool under the waterline or be so hard to remove. It might be pollen, algae or some mineral deposit, or something else I really have no idea at this point.

 

[PoolStored]

New one on me...let's see what @mknauss and @JoyfulNoise say...

 

[mknauss]

Iron?

 

[PoolStored]

It feel a little has a slightly slippery texture and is removable but the brush doesn’t seem to work well at getting it off even with a bunch of passes, same with the vacuum.

Iron?

Does iron feel slippery? Confusing part is that it doesn't come off with a brush...

 

[mknauss]

Does iron feel slippery? Confusing part is that it doesn't come off with a brush...

Not usually on slippery. It does not come of with a brush in my pool, but I have fiberglass.

 

[Minni]

Iron I had tested by Leslies as part of their panel and it came back 0 on the two tests this year. I do have a very old heater, but it doesn't appear to be rusting at least not enough to equal what I am seeing, it would have likely failed if the pipes lost that much material.

I might have 2 different substances making up what I am feeling one that is the gritty and one that is the mustard color and semi slippery. When capturing it with the paper towel I am not seeing anything that looks gritty getting captured nor am I feeling it on what I am wiping off, it might be scale or salt that is hard to remove and going back into solution? I am confused because what I am feeling and what I am capturing with a paper towel don't seem to match in texture, at least not where I have tried. I have a 150 ish gallon spa attached to the pool that shares the water and I am seeing a little of the brownish stuff on the bottom same as the pool but none of the feeling on the sides. I will try to drain that without disturbing it to get a better clean sample of what is at the bottom and mustard/sandy colored.

Trust me I know this sounds crazy I can't capture what I am touching but can't see in a towel. I'll do some more investigating after work.

A few possibilities I can think of:
Actual ultra fine sand from the filter getting ejected into the water and somehow sticking to the liner
Dissolved sow bug exoskeletons, I have hundreds a day in the baskets
Some kind of stuff from the buckets of crane fly larva I pulled out
scale from something that is hard to get back in solution
Pollen for the color
Algae for the color

Thank you guys if you want me to try anything or can think of anything I am down to do whatever I can after work, someone is going to realize I have been missing though if I don't get back to it lol.

 

[Minni]

Okay now I am more confused. I have a few things happening I think and to be honest they seem bad but not sure where to go.

Stuff on the bottom:

This is a mix of fine mustard colored stuff that after testing with a freaking tree and pool water I am 95% sure is settled pine pollen. The same appears in the spa and it smears look and behaves the same as the control from the tree.

The other stuff from the bottom is what I think is sand glass and roofing asphalt. There are two pictures of that. I managed to extract it with a pool hose an and a shop vac with a sock and some insanity. The issue is I don’t have sand anywhere so either it is cement decking eroding or the filter expelling it.

The stuff on the walls:

The mustard colored stuff is a little lighter than the pollen I am getting at the bottom so that may well be algae. I am going to continue with the SLAM, and since I am not 100% confident in my CYA I am going to push up my level of FC a little and see if that helps.

The gritty stuff I can’t capture. I have done everything I can think of. So either it is dissolving or it is actually this mustard colored stuff.

Now strange stuff time:

I wiped a 3 foot section of the wall down with a paper towel and collected the resulting water. I had a feeling it might be crystalline salt, so I tested it. The water from the cloth reads out 4000 ppm higher in salt than the sample the standard water. I don’t know how I would have salt crystallize on the liner or why it is hard to remove but it might be a combo of the mustard colored stuff causing that.

Tested CH just to make sure it’s not crazy.

There is also a fiberglass spa I suppose could be doing something strange. It has less circulation and no staining or anything on the walls or bottom other than what I am fairly sure is pollen and a bit of roofing, thanks to the wind for that in both cases I think.

 

[woodyp]

You should be past pollen season by now. Is it showing up on cars or anything else?

 

[Minni]

Everything is yellow - idk if gifs work but I have 5 of these in 100 feet. This is the little one 25 feet away

 

[PoolStored]

YIKES!

 

[Minni]

Edited I just figured stuff out:

I cleaned and covered the spa with a tarp to eliminate external stuff getting in the water. Did testing and confident it is pollen.

The grit at the bottom is sand. How worried should I be that the sand filter is likely ejecting sand into the pool? I do see some sand in the spa this morning as well. I think that is from the pump being too high and ejecting some.

Fc didn’t drop substantially and water is clear overnight so I think the slam is prolly done.

The stuff on the sides is iron! I took off a return and the inside has the same film. I soaked it in vitamin c and it cleaned it.

Edited again:

Almost positive this is coming from a 21 year old Laars Lite 2 LD250N that the water goes though. This looks like it has a cast iron heat exchanger. So that might be dissolving into the saltwater.the stuff I thought was roofing I pulled up the other day is magnetic so that’s not good

I have read a huge amount of the stuff on iron and socks on returns, polyfill, other cool things. I don’t seem to understand:

1) Did the high FC from the slam make this visible or at least more visible?

2) If I wanted to try to get this out with Pollyfill how do I get this into solution so that that works? It looks like asorbic acid should do it?

3) What the heck caused it to stick to the walls, and how to do unstick that?

4) I can vac to waste so I could floc the stuff, but that seems mixed and more if a last resort?

I can also replace water as my tap seems to be iron free. I am looking at replacing the heater with something that is not literally dissolving into my pool.

Thanks again guys hope you are having a great long weekend.

 

[PoolStored]

I don't have experience with Iron in the water...maybe @mknauss or @ajw22 or @JamesW can help...

 

[mknauss]

A number of Wiki articles are available.

Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Minni]

A number of Wiki articles are available.

Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks I have read though those and a number of other posts dealing with this topic, there is a lot of great info. I am literally pulling metal fragments out of the pool bottom with a very powerful magnet. So I am very confident it is iron. I am trying to solve this before the water gets warmer and harder to handle algae control.

The source of my problem is a decrepit heater that should never have been used with salt but was kept by the last owner, that should be replaced Thursday.

My water supply I had tested by the town and my iron is undetectable. So clean source.

Check me on my reading if I drop ph down, drop out chlorine, use polyquat 60 to deal with biological stuff, then do the AA treatment, all the iron I have should end up in suspension. At that point I can drain to last step replace water and do that a few times to pull out a good chunk of it, then use polyfill or some form or mechanical filtration to pull out more. Then fix all my levels of Chems, clean my sand because I think that is prolly not good if I am pulling out metal chips, and I should be good?

Since my source water is good replacing a good part of the water seems like the most idiot proof ish option then finishing with mechanical filtration for a few days.

I have a lot of iron, white pipes are mustard color on the inside, but but no green or brown tinge to the water and the stuff on the sides, it’s mostly stuck to a vinyl liner which is seems odd based on what I read since they are supposed to have positively charged ions. So right now I have very little in suspension my water looks incredible, my liner feels gross, and my pipes looks like they have nicotine stains.

For the time and cost of rebalancing the water chemistry I could also try something like floc and use a transfer pump as a vac. If that doesn’t work I think I am in a bad place to mechanically filter it or even water change.

I am a little overwhelmed and there doesn’t seem to be a one size fits all answer to how to address this. Any advice on what you think is my best approach is appreciated.

 

[mknauss]

Heaters are copper. Unless it had a cast iron header. FYI on that.
Otherwise your plan is sound. Even better would be to wait until Fall. That way you will not impact swim season with this mess. But you will have to live with the iron stains.

 

[Minni]

Heaters are copper. Unless it had a cast iron header. FYI on that.
Otherwise your plan is sound. Even better would be to wait until Fall. That way you will not impact swim season with this mess. But you will have to live with the iron stains.

It is a cast iron heater, in salt water, that is 22 years old. I would love to wait till fall I have a short swimming season and already have 12k in this pool and didn’t use it yet.

Iron should pose no risk to swimmers or equipment as long as it’s not chunks? don’t care about stains at all.

Right now this is what I am pulling up with a magnet from the bottom. That is sharp and prolly bad for the salt cell the liner etc, so I am going to add chlorine and filter for a shorter time per day time till the heater is out of the loop.

I want to clean the sand since I am going to assume I have some metal in there prolly chunks because this is crazy. Do I need to cut unions into the pipes to get the top off? How does this actually get apart seems like unscrewing it would leave ridged pipes in the way of removing the top.

Again thanks. Iron is making a lot of sense now and some strange things are starting to make sense.