Pool greenhorn needs guidance

[clarkboy]

I’ll email the builder this morning about it. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t overreacting at the situation. Thanks for confirming. I’ll share what I get back in response.

My pool builder just got back to me, but he called and didn’t reply to my email. Should I ask him to reply to my email?

He did say he’ll be out to check the patio areas around the deep end. And if there is a problem they will remove the gravel to add more fill dirt and compact it to provide a solid base for the gravel. The areas that are soft is where most of trenching happened for plumbing and electrical.

 

[mknauss]

Send him an email with what you discussed. His words as much as possible. You are documenting. In case.

 

[clarkboy]

Send him an email with what you discussed. His words as much as possible. You are documenting. In case.

Thank you, I’ll do that.

 

[kimkats]

"What I heard you say on (date) at (time) in our phone call is..................."

 

[clarkboy]

"What I heard you say on (date) at (time) in our phone call is..................."

Thank you for the guidance. I was able to get that over to the builder this morning.

That worked better than the uncomfortable situation of asking him to email me back with what we discussed .

 

[clarkboy]

Hi everyone, hope you all had a wonderful Easter weekend.

How should this situation be handled? I’m very upset with myself that I didn’t catch this before now. I did measure the best that I could when the rebar was in place, but I should have put more effort into that task. My pool was supposed to be 8.6 ft deep (water depth). We wanted a diving pool. We paid extra to have the pool depth changed from the standard 6ft. We paid extra to have rocks removed to get to our desired depth. I purchased a diving board and stand because the builder told us the pool was deep enough to accommodate. Well now I don’t think that’s the case.

I was playing with my new toy (drone) I got last week. Well the drone has sensors that tell you have far above a surface you are, so I decided to fly it over the pool to check the depth. The shallow end was fine, but when I got to the deep end it wasn’t even reading 8ft. I thought that can’t be right, so I decided to measure it last night with my laser level. I used a Bosch GLL-3 300 laser attached to a tripod. I put the laser line midway in the skimmer. I then ran a string from the deep end to the shallow end and measured from the deepest point in the pool to the string. My measurement came back between 92 and 93 inches. That’s almost 1 foot off where the depth should be. I contacted the builder this morning. He said he’ll be out to measure today.

What options are available for situations like this? I’m sure builders encounter these problems from time to time. This is extremely disappointing because we are paying a huge amount of money to professionals to have the pool built to what was specified in the contract. What a bummer to end the weekend that way.

 

[PCR]

Hi everyone, hope you all had a wonderful Easter weekend.

How should this situation be handled? I’m very upset with myself that I didn’t catch this before now. I did measure the best that I could when the rebar was in place, but I should have put more effort into that task. My pool was supposed to be 8.6 ft deep (water depth). We wanted a diving pool. We paid extra to have the pool depth changed from the standard 6ft. We paid extra to have rocks removed to get to our desired depth. I purchased a diving board and stand because the builder told us the pool was deep enough to accommodate. Well now I don’t think that’s the case.

I was playing with my new toy (drone) I got last week. Well the drone has sensors that tell you have far above a surface you are, so I decided to fly it over the pool to check the depth. The shallow end was fine, but when I got to the deep end it wasn’t even reading 8ft. I thought that can’t be right, so I decided to measure it last night with my laser level. I used a Bosch GLL-3 300 laser attached to a tripod. I put the laser line midway in the skimmer. I then ran a string from the deep end to the shallow end and measured from the deepest point in the pool to the string. My measurement came back between 92 and 93 inches. That’s almost 1 foot off where the depth should be. I contacted the builder this morning. He said he’ll be out to measure today.

What options are available for situations like this? I’m sure builders encounter these problems from time to time. This is extremely disappointing because we are paying a huge amount of money to professionals to have the pool built to what was specified in the contract. What a bummer to end the weekend that way.

What exactly does your contract say about depths? Did you get a side-view depth profile drawing as part of the contract that is very clear on water depths at various points of the pool?

Check section 5 of the standard for swimming pools to see if you still have a diving pool or not.

2011 ANSI/APSP/ICC-5 RESIDENTIAL INGROUND SWIMMING POOLS | ICC DIGITAL CODES

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.

codes.iccsafe.org

In terms of what they can do at this point with gunite already in place - my experience with this same issue is that they can do nothing except offer you money.

 

[clarkboy]

What exactly does your contract say about depths? Did you get a side-view depth profile drawing as part of the contract that is very clear on water depths at various points of the pool?

Thanks for providing some feedback. Yes, the contract states 3.5 to 8.5 feet deep. On the structural design it shows 3.6 to 8.6ft. Attached is a copy of that document.

In terms of what they can do at this point with gunite already in place - my experience with this same issue is that they can do nothing except offer you money.

Well that‘s disappointing to hear. We have to live with the pool for the foreseeable future, and really wanted a deep pool. The compensation for something like this would need to be significant.

Check section 5 of the standard for swimming pools to see if you still have a diving pool or not.

I’ll take a look over this. We purchased a Frontier IV board from SR Smith on a half meter steel stand. I thought the pool had to be 8.6ft deep for that board. Hoping for a silver lining and we can keep the diving board.

 

[Newdude]

We purchased a Frontier IV board from SR Smith on a half meter steel stand. I thought the pool had to be 8.6ft deep for that board

I have (I believe) that board on the old school u frames and its fine with 7.5 ft water depth here.

 

[clarkboy]

I have (I believe) that board on the old school u frames and its fine with 7.5 ft water depth here.

Oh okay that’s encouraging. Do you know if the u frames are about the height as the steel frames? I’ve been on work calls all day and haven’t had time to research anything.

 

[Newdude]

Do you know if the u frames are about the height as the steel frames?

I just measured and mine are 14 inches over the wall height. I forget now exactly but they could have been about 6 inches higher, which would have been your half meter.

I measured from the water height per the instruction manual and left the crew detailed notes politely asking for the max allowable height and they didn't listen.

 

[clarkboy]

I just measured and mine are 14 inches over the wall height. I forget now exactly but they could have been about 6 inches higher, which would have been your half meter.

I measured from the water height per the instruction manual and left the crew detailed notes politely asking for the max allowable height and they didn't listen.

Awesome thanks for checking. So if you are on your board it’s about 16 inch above the water surface. I just added a couple of inches for the board thickness. What’s the depth of your pool? Any problems with diving?

they didn't listen.

Seems like people have difficulties doing what they are asked. You have to constantly look over their shoulders…smh.

 

[Newdude]

What’s the depth of your pool? Any problems with diving?

Water is 7.5 to 7.75 ft. At 6ft 3in, I'm fine providing I don't dive straight down. Kids and 5+ footers have no problems at all.

 

[PCR]

Oh okay that’s encouraging. Do you know if the u frames are about the height as the steel frames? I’ve been on work calls all day and haven’t had time to research anything.

Look for the SR Smith documentation online or the manual that came with your board. I THINK (but don't take my word for it!) that for your Type 2 pool (max depth of 7.5 feet) with an 8' board then the top of the board cannot be more than 20" above the water. And you can see from the standard that the 7.5 foot depth must be at least 8.5 feet out from the wall and then it has to still be at least 5 feet deep 16 feet from the wall etc. But it is your builder that will know all this for sure. I certainly sympathize with you. It is VERY frustrating when you have a design and pay significant money for a pool of a certain depth profile and the builder gets it wrong through lack of attention and care.

 

[PCR]

Regardless of whether your diving board is still ok or not, the standard for residential pool construction tolerances is +/- 3 inches for depth, and, if your measurements prove to be correct, your builder is way off that. You should still hold him accountable for that.

 

[clarkboy]

Look for the SR Smith documentation online or the manual that came with your board. I THINK (but don't take my word for it!) that for your Type 2 pool (max depth of 7.5 feet) with an 8' board then the top of the board cannot be more than 20" above the water. And you can see from the standard that the 7.5 foot depth must be at least 8.5 feet out from the wall and then it has to still be at least 5 feet deep 16 feet from the wall etc. But it is your builder that will know all this for sure. I certainly sympathize with you. It is VERY frustrating when you have a design and pay significant money for a pool of a certain depth profile and the builder gets it wrong through lack of attention and care.

Thanks for taking the time to share that information. Based on what I just read I believe you are correct. I will have the builder confirm as you stated, but I have to say my confidence is a bit shaken by what has taken place with the pool. I had trouble sleeping last night I was so mad. Frustration would be putting it lightly.

 

[kimkats]

@clarkboy since you have it in your contract and on the plans you have a VERY firm place to ask them to make the depth right. It will not be easy or cheap for him. He may (want to say will) give you major push back but................they can jack hammer out the bottom of the shell and cut and remove the rebar to the straight part of the wall . THEN they can re-dig to the proper depth and put in more rebar tying it into the the rebar on the wall. Nothing is impossible so do what is best for you and your family.

 

[clarkboy]

@clarkboy since you have it in your contract and on the plans you have a VERY firm place to ask them to make the depth right. It will not be easy or cheap for him. He may (want to say will) give you major push back but................they can jack hammer out the bottom of the shell and cut and remove the rebar to the straight part of the wall . THEN they can re-dig to the proper depth and put in more rebar tying it into the the rebar on the wall. Nothing is impossible so do what is best for you and your family.

Thanks Kimkats! I prefer that the pool is dug to the depth we planned. We envisioned having a deeper pool, and spending 180k+ we don’t want to settle. I wonder what type of fight we would be in to get them to do what you outlined?!?

I wonder what tolerances are acceptable in pool construction? I know it’s impossible to get anything perfect. There has to be a little acceptable fudge room, but where does that line cross into unacceptable.

I prefer not having to contact lawyers to get this done. Lawyers can get pricey. I do pay for legal services through my job, so maybe I should start looking into how I go about requesting legal advice or representation. The builder is supposed to be here tomorrow. They were supposed to start installing the drain and laying rebar for the patio. Let’s see what they have to say. I’ll provide updates when they are available.

 

[kimkats]

It is not going to be fun or easy. Make sure there is NO emotion when you are talking to him. I would show him the contract and blueprints then hand him a measuring tape and ask him to show you how deep the deep end is. Don't chatter or say anything else. Just point to the depth number on the plans then the tape. Once he measures it don't say anything. Wait for him to say what he is going to say. If he does not then ask him "How is this going to be fixed?" and STOP right there. Offer him something to drink and to sit down so you two can talk it through. Have a pad of paper and a pen your know writes so you can take notes as needed. Make sure to paraphrase "What I hear you saying is............" and such. THEN put it all in writing for him to sign IF it is to your liking. You do NOT have to decide right then and there either. Don't let him pressure you in any way.

Good luck and know we will be thinking about you during this hard and not fun time in your life.

 

[clarkboy]

It is not going to be fun or easy. Make sure there is NO emotion when you are talking to him. I would show him the contract and blueprints then hand him a measuring tape and ask him to show you how deep the deep end is. Don't chatter or say anything else. Just point to the depth number on the plans then the tape. Once he measures it don't say anything. Wait for him to say what he is going to say. If he does not then ask him "How is this going to be fixed?" and STOP right there. Offer him something to drink and to sit down so you two can talk it through. Have a pad of paper and a pen your know writes so you can take notes as needed. Make sure to paraphrase "What I hear you saying is............" and such. THEN put it all in writing for him to sign IF it is to your liking. You do NOT have to decide right then and there either. Don't let him pressure you in any way.

Good luck and know we will be thinking about you during this hard and not fun time in your life.

Thanks for the encouraging words and sound advice!