Breaker check

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diamonddog

diamonddog

0
Nov 24, 2012
112
Irvine, CA
After a simple rewire job, I started to look at my breakers after reading all the information in posts.

First issue is on of the clips that holds in the breaker broke off. So the breaker is loose now. How much of an issue is this and is there a fix?

4C0FCD21-3BB5-4B2E-A126-CD58581EC9F0.jpeg



Second issue is that I don’t notice any GFI breakers. I also thought the pump had to be and it looks like it’s not? All the pool electricity is wired to a sub panel inside my laundry room and there is no white wire running out of those 2 breaker

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While not the best situation, there are many panels in use with that same issue. The front of the panel will hold the breaker in place. You could swap that double breaker with the unused one above it. The buss the breakers are attached to is not available separately. On smaller panels with burned buss bars I have found a new sub-panel with the same configuration at an electrical supply, or even Home Depot, pulled the buss out, and replaced it. Otherwise the entire power center would have to be replaced. It has to match exactly.

Your pool is old enough that GFCI breakers weren't required when built, but are code now if any motor, blower, heater, etc. is replaced. All 120v lights have always needed one, either a breaker or device, in the circuit for at least 40 years, probably longer.

If your Intellflow pump was installed after 2012 or 2013, hard to remember which, it should have had a Siemans brand GFCB installed with it. Pentair would/will not honor a warraty without one in place. Other brands don't work well with those pumps. They are wise to have, but not required until a change is made.
 
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1poolman1 said:
While not the best situation, there are many panels in use with that same issue. The front of the panel will hold the breaker in place. You could swap that double breaker with the unused one above it. The buss the breakers are attached to is not available separately. On smaller panels with burned buss bars I have found a new sub-panel with the same configuration at an electrical supply, or even Home Depot, pulled the buss out, and replaced it. Otherwise the entire power center would have to be replaced. It has to match exactly.

Your pool is old enough that GFCI breakers weren't required when built, but are code now if any motor, blower, heater, etc. is replaced. All 120v lights have always needed one, either a breaker or device, in the circuit for at least 40 years, probably longer.

If your Intellflow pump was installed after 2012 or 2013, hard to remember which, it should have had a Siemans brand GFCB installed with it. Pentair would/will not honor a warraty without one in place. Other brands don't work well with those pumps. They are wise to have, but not required until a change is made.
Click to expand...

This was all installed in 2016 so everything is out of warranty. Thank you for responding. A few Questions:
  1. There is an unused breaker that I can just rearrange these so that I can swap and the broken clip one would be for a breaker that is off. Any issue with this?
  2. I assume it's better to put on a breaker turned off than to leave that male copper flat connection piece that goes into ithe back of the breaker exposed?
  3. When I change these breakers , I assume I pull out from the left side of the breaker and rock the breaker toward the right (wire side) as to no break another clip?
  4. That whole panel. with every break feed to an indoor sub panel in my laundry room. Could I just replace that breaker with a GFCI breaker so that everything in the Pentair panel will be GFCI?
  5. If not, I will t just get the Seimens GFCI breaker and wire in the same order from top to bottom in the ire sequence? Other breaker manufacturers wouldn't change the order of the wire holes correct?
  6. I know I have to match the amps, what other information do I need to get to get the proper replacement GFCI breaker?
 
1. No problem
2. Yes, or get a panel plug
3. Yes
4. No. You would have continuous problems with tripping and code requires each circuit to have its own breaker. Separate for pump (heater can be on this circuit if it is wired for 240V), lights, etc..
5. Can't just start wiring the way it is now. You have a combination of breakers in the panel; single-pole, double-pole, quad. There are no quad GFCI breakers for this application. Pictures don't show which circuits are supplied by which breaker. If you aren't familiar with this type of work it is better left to a professional. That now unused breaker may now be needed with the change.
6. Siemans QPF20 double-pole GFCI breaker for the pump. Others can match what you now have, Type BR, if you are going to change them. Your light is most likely already GFCI protected by a device in the side of the power center, like an outlet.
 
1poolman1 said:
1. No problem
2. Yes, or get a panel plug
3. Yes
4. No. You would have continuous problems with tripping and code requires each circuit to have its own breaker. Separate for pump (heater can be on this circuit if it is wired for 240V), lights, etc..
5. Can't just start wiring the way it is now. You have a combination of breakers in the panel; single-pole, double-pole, quad. There are no quad GFCI breakers for this application. Pictures don't show which circuits are supplied by which breaker. If you aren't familiar with this type of work it is better left to a professional. That now unused breaker may now be needed with the change.
6. Siemans QPF20 double-pole GFCI breaker for the pump. Others can match what you now have, Type BR, if you are going to change them. Your light is most likely already GFCI protected by a device in the side of the power center, like an outlet.
Click to expand...
I'm going to have a professional install the GFI per your advice

Do you think there is a lower cost way to deal with those broken clips? Like a along zip tie running behind it and holding the breakers all down? I am surprised someone hasn't made clips or brackets that would h old these down.

Rather not spend another $200 + dollars on this
 

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diamonddog said:
I'm going to have a professional install the GFI per your advice

Do you think there is a lower cost way to deal with those broken clips? Like a along zip tie running behind it and holding the breakers all down? I am surprised someone hasn't made clips or brackets that would h old these down.

Rather not spend another $200 + dollars on this
Click to expand...
Running a zip tie is not recommended. Based on the pictures, you can't get behind the breaker base anyway. I see this problem many times a year, even in the main electrical panel on a home. Someone forces a breaker into place instead of being patient and allowing it to fit properly, breaking the hold-down clip. What that does is allow the breaker to move when placing it in the "on" position. Usually the panel cover is sufficient to hold the breaker in place the rest of the time. The only "right" way to repair it is to replace the base.
 
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