New Hayward VSP pump sounds like its getting air into it (video)

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golovko

golovko

Gold Supporter
Nov 24, 2021
81
Raleigh, NC
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
Hi all,

My pool is a new pool (August 2022 completion date) and I have two Hayward VSP pumps. One (bubblers pump) was replaced a month or so ago because it stopped communicating with the Hayward Omni Panel and would shut off after a minute. The builder replaced it without question for free and mentioned that they've been finding a batch of bad pumps from around the time my pool was constructed.

Now my other pump (Main Pool/Spa pump, original from August) has started making this weird noise which I can only assume is due to air getting into the system before the pump. You can also see the erratic pressure on the cartridge filter gauge. I can also observe air bubbles coming out of the two closest return jets, this eventually stops after its been running for a few minutes. Does this seem like a simple leak issue or is there actually an issue with the pump? For the time being I've reduced the pump down to 75% instead of 90% during the day to minimize the noise and potential damage to the pump.

Video:

If it is a leak issue, what's the best way to find the leak? I read some where online about using shaving cream around fittings to see it bubbling. I know soapy water is used to find gas leaks but I assume using any soapy water would be bad to get into a pool pump.

I did find two leaks previously (before this sound started happening) and have taken care of them. One was a cracked drain plug for the cartridge filter which I replaced. I believe this was from the cold snap we had a few weeks back. The weekly pool maintenance crew overtightened it and damaged it so there was a tiny drip which froze. The other leak was with the top cover of the cartridge filter, wasn't locked in place correctly so I reset it myself. They always check and clean the filters after each weekly visit.
 
It's more than just an air leak.

Maybe a clogged impeller or clogged suction.

Can you show better pictures of the whole system?

Check the check valve for debris getting clogged.

Why do you even have a check valve before the pump?

Try removing the flapper in the check valve to see if that makes a difference.

Try opening the waste line to eliminate the filter as a problem.
 
Why is the pad so wet?

Where is all of that water coming from?

It the skimmer working?

Can you show a video looking into the skimmer while the pump is on?

What happens if you lower the speed?

What is the pump model number?
 
Check the Event Log to see if any errors are recorded.


1674256368744.png
1674256479299.png
1674256508428.png


TriStar VS | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

TriStar® VS variable speed pool pumps are the most energy efficient on the market, according to EPA ENERGY STAR 3rd party testing data. Saving pool owners up to 90% on energy costs, they are specifically designed to replace most single speed pool pumps.
www.hayward-pool.com www.hayward-pool.com
 
Thanks @JamesW and @1poolman1. I will check the things you mentioned best I can. I will also take some video of the skimmer and better shots of the setup. I took the video after I had already inspected and opened the cover for the pump and the cartridge filter cover. I had removed both so a lot of water generally pours out when I do (assuming thats normal?) but after I bleed out the pressure from the bleed valve before opening it up.
 
JamesW said:
Check the Event Log to see if any errors are recorded.


View attachment 469940
View attachment 469941
View attachment 469942


TriStar VS | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

TriStar® VS variable speed pool pumps are the most energy efficient on the market, according to EPA ENERGY STAR 3rd party testing data. Saving pool owners up to 90% on energy costs, they are specifically designed to replace most single speed pool pumps.
www.hayward-pool.com www.hayward-pool.com
Click to expand...
I haven't tried yet since you posted the links to the manual but when I've opened up the cover for the display screen of the VSP pump in the past, it doesn't turn on even after pressing buttons. I assumed this was because it was managed by the omnilogic board so there was some kind of lockout from local controls. Is that not the case?
 
golovko said:
Hi all,

My pool is a new pool (August 2022 completion date) and I have two Hayward VSP pumps. One (bubblers pump) was replaced a month or so ago because it stopped communicating with the Hayward Omni Panel and would shut off after a minute. The builder replaced it without question for free and mentioned that they've been finding a batch of bad pumps from around the time my pool was constructed.

Now my other pump (Main Pool/Spa pump, original from August) has started making this weird noise which I can only assume is due to air getting into the system before the pump. You can also see the erratic pressure on the cartridge filter gauge. I can also observe air bubbles coming out of the two closest return jets, this eventually stops after its been running for a few minutes. Does this seem like a simple leak issue or is there actually an issue with the pump? For the time being I've reduced the pump down to 75% instead of 90% during the day to minimize the noise and potential damage to the pump.

Video:

If it is a leak issue, what's the best way to find the leak? I read some where online about using shaving cream around fittings to see it bubbling. I know soapy water is used to find gas leaks but I assume using any soapy water would be bad to get into a pool pump.

I did find two leaks previously (before this sound started happening) and have taken care of them. One was a cracked drain plug for the cartridge filter which I replaced. I believe this was from the cold snap we had a few weeks back. The weekly pool maintenance crew overtightened it and damaged it so there was a tiny drip which froze. The other leak was with the top cover of the cartridge filter, wasn't locked in place correctly so I reset it myself. They always check and clean the filters after each weekly visit.
Click to expand...
When we see this behavior we check for blockage on the pressure side.

Starting with your filter.

Take the cartridges out entirely, close your filter body and try and run it again. Does the bouncing continue?
 
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JamesW said:
Why is the pad so wet?

Where is all of that water coming from?

It the skimmer working?

Can you show a video looking into the skimmer while the pump is on?

What happens if you lower the speed?

What is the pump model number?
Click to expand...
This is a video after I just turned the pump back on to 91% looking into the skimmer as well as some of the visible bubbles from the nearest return jet during the initial startup.


I will take a photo of the equipment pad in the daylight tomorrow, couldn't get a good shot in the dark tonight.

Lowering the speed will reduce the noise significantly (from 90% speed down to 75%) and the pressure gauge stabilizes more although at a lower pressure but you can still see a slight erratic reading. I've been keeping it at 75% during the day instead of 90% since this started happening. Overnight the speed is set to 50%.

This is the label on the side of the pump, can't really tell which is the model number:
Screenshot 2023-01-20 at 7.41.00 PM.png
 

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bradgray said:
When we see this behavior we check for blockage on the pressure side.

Starting with your filter.

Take the cartridges out entirely, close your filter body and try and run it again. Does the bouncing continue?
Click to expand...
Thanks! Will give this a shot tomorrow in the daylight and report back.
 
What's happening in this check valve?

How high is the pump above the pool?

Remove the clear lid and check for obstructions.

If the pump is not high above the pool, I would just remove the flapper because you do not need it.

Remove the pin, spring and flapper.

Be careful when reinstalling the lid.

Do not cross-thread the stainless steel screws into the plastic.

Rotate the screws slowly counterclockwise until they drop into the original threads and then go clockwise.

If you don't get the original threads, you will damage the plastic threads.

1674263041610.png


1674263444655.png
 
Pool equipment pad is a good 2.5ft to 3ft higher elevation than the pool water level and at least 18" above the spa water level. Pad is located right around the corner where I have circled in red in the below photo.

DJI_0232.JPG

This is the equipment pad, what is not visible is the VS Pump for the bubblers (left side) and the heater, blower, and omni logic panel (right)
IMG_1060.jpeg
IMG_1062.jpeg

Video of the check valve and flapper (the one closest to the VS Pump)

Remove the clear lid and check for obstructions.
Click to expand...
I had removed this earlier tonight to check for any debris in the basket as well as in the impeller. It was free and clear, just a few small (< 1") leaves in the basket.
 
In my opinion, it is almost definitely a suction side blockage.

A return side blockage will just be steady and not pulsing.

A suction side blockage will pulse like that.

Check under the skimmer basket.

Are the main drain and skimmers open?

Do you have 1 or 2 skimmers?

Are the actuated valves set to Pool or Spa?

You can undo the unions at the pump and filter to move the pump back so that you can look into the suction pipe with a flashlight to see if you can see anything.

It might also be an impeller obstruction.

You can check the impeller if you want.
 
JamesW said:
In my opinion, it is almost definitely a suction side blockage.

A return side blockage will just be steady and not pulsing.

A suction side blockage will pulse like that.

Check under the skimmer basket.

Are the main drain and skimmers open?

Do you have 1 or 2 skimmers?

Are the actuated valves set to Pool or Spa?

You can undo the unions at the pump and filter to move the pump back so that you can look into the suction pipe with a flashlight to see if you can see anything.

It might also be an impeller obstruction.

You can check the impeller if you want.
Click to expand...
Main drain and skimmers are open currently.
I've got two skimmers, each at opposite sides and ends of the pool although the one closest to the pad usually ends up with most of the debris from the pool.
Under the skimmer baskets it looks clear apart from the couple of tiny leaves floating around that slip out of the basket when I remove it. I generally try to pick up all the leaves by hand that are left behind once I remove the basket.

Everything should be set to Pool at least according to the valve positions and the omnilogic panel current settings. Although when it turns on spillover (main drain with the spa jets/returns) it still has the same issue.

I'll check back out there in the morning. Getting harder to see things in the dark. Thanks for all your help tonight, really appreciate it!
 
You have 2 check valves and in my opinion, you do not need either.

I would remove the flappers.

I suspect that there is probably a clog in one of the two check valves or in the three-way valve in front of the pump.

I would remove the clear check valve lids and look for an obstruction.

I would open the three-way valve and check for debris.

I think that the check valve body is the same body as the regular two-way valve body, so you could replace the clear lid and flapper with a valve instead of the check valve so that you can close the line when you open the pump lid.

The pump should catch prime in any case, so I would eliminate the check valve.

I would put a check valve after the pump and before the filter.


1674265101983.png
 

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