Need advice on the next steps to balance my pool's chemistry

[BullishBear]

Summary:

I'm newbie pool owner who recently closed the house in Austin TX few days back. The sellers were maintaining the pool on their own. They left behind Taylor K2006 kit using which I conducted two tests (details below). I learnt the basics from TroubleFreePool articles and SwimUniversity videos.

Pool System Facts:

17K Gallons Gunite Plastered Salt Water Pool with Sand Filter & Fixed Speed Pump setup. The pump is scheduled to run 10 hours over night. SWG output is set to Auto @ 50% output. Sand Filter clocks 25 psi during the run and I'm not aware of the base pressure for this setup yet.

Test Results:

On 9/19/22: FC = 6.5; CC = 2; pH = 7.7; TA = 50; CH = 475; CYA = 37; Salt = 2000

On 9/27/22: FC = 3; CC = 0.5; pH = 8.0; TA = 50; CH = 475; CYA = Not Tested; Salt = 1600

Note:

1. I ran out of CYA reagent but per my understanding this doesn't reduce that fast so assuming it should be around 35.
2. I had to top up the pool several days as we used them at least every other day for an average 45 mins and it was very sunny in Austin.

Next Steps: Per my theoretical knowledge following are my next steps but I lack specifics which is where I seek advise!

1. Backwash the filter —> To make sure filter is clean as more leaves and pollen started falling into the pool but more importantly I need to benchmark the normal pressure of the system before I try to balance CYA which will restrict backwashing for few weeks.
2. Add Salt to the pool to bring to close to 3000 ppm —> This will help SWG to produce chlorine regularly and beat the heat & until CYA is increased. Since Salt is easier to add but tricky to remove (draining and unbalancing other stuffs), I will be doing this in multiple steps.
3. Add Muratic acid to lower PH —> The Acid Demand Test was completed with a single drop of R-0005 reagent.
4. Add CYA Stabilizer —> Will be trying out the porous form by placing them in the socks and place them either in Skimmer or hang them in front of return head. I also learnt that I need to run the pump for 24 hours continuously and then test CYA only after 48 hours after the run completes.

Question/Advise Needed:

1. Is my above sequence of action plan is OK? If not, please correct.
2. Can any of these steps i.e. 2 thru 4 can be done in parallel?
3. Considering the pool volume and test result, how much Salt, Muratic acid, and CYA, I should add to bring it to the normal levels? (Per TFP, Salt should be 3200 to 3400 ppm, pH should be 7.6-7.8, CYA should be 70-80)
4. Where can I buy proper Taylor K2006 kit for the best price? Amazon has different price tags from different sellers; Home Depot, Walmart have longer delivery times. Can these be purchased in-person for the best price from any shops?

If you have made it to the end, thank you for your time so far. I really appreciate if you can take a moment to share your knowledge and provide advise as well!

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP. There are many members from Austin so plenty of local knowledge. I visit there often to see family.
If you have a K-2006 test kit, then all you really need to is to purchase reagents as they deplete over time. I havre been successful by buying reagents on Amazon or I purchase directly from Taylor Technologies on their website. Additionally, there is another site, TFTestkits.net that sells reagents to many of the members including me as well.

CYA is measured in decade numbers because the scale is logarithmic so don’t try to interpret between the decade numbers - just use the higher number. So you have a CYA of 40 and you should target a minimum of 60 with a SWCG. As stated use a sock method to disperse it and also bring it up gradually.

Suggest you use the PoolMath app to help you determine how much to add of each chemical.

Note - will come back later With more info. Have to go now.

 

[BullishBear]

Welcome to TFP. There are many members from Austin so plenty of local knowledge. I visit there often to see family.
If you have a K-2006 test kit, then all you really need to is to purchase reagents as they deplete over time. I havre been successful by buying reagents on Amazon or I purchase directly from Taylor Technologies on their website. Additionally, there is another site, TFTestkits.net that sells reagents to many of the members including me as well.

CYA is measured in decade numbers because the scale is logarithmic so don’t try to interpret between the decade numbers - just use the higher number. So you have a CYA of 40 and you should target a minimum of 60 with a SWCG. As stated use a sock method to disperse it and also bring it up gradually.

Suggest you use the PoolMath app to help you determine how much to add of each chemical.

Note - will come back later With more info. Have to go now.

Thank you @HermanTX. I will checkout TFTestkits.net and PoolMath. Appreciate your time, awaiting more info when you can.

 

[HermanTX]

Hi again. It would be helpful to update your signature (go to settings at left and then to signature). Include the make and model of pump, SWCG, filter, heater, etc. pool volume, cleaner type & type of test kit, as this will help guide responses on future requests.

It is always good to clean/backwash a filter, especially if you do not know the history of it. This will give you a starting baseline as you have indicated. You should backwash again when the filter pressure increases 25% over the baseline.

The salt range should be what is the recommended by the mfg. You will also find that the salt readout on the SWCG may be different from your actual testing. If you do not have a salt kit - purchase the K-1766 on Amazon or from TFTestkits.net The salt level should be whatever makes your SWCG happy. You can add salt in increments and can be done most anytime. Just brush to ensure it mixes well and it may take a day or two to have a good salt reading.

Adding MA can be done most anytime as well but if adding other chemicals such as calcium hardness it is best to wait 30-60 minutes to let it mix. Always ensure your pump is running after you add any chemical or salt or stabilizer.

Using the PM app, adding 4 pds of dry stabilizer will increase the CYA by 28ppm. This is for 17k gal pool.

Adding 8 oz (1 cup) MA (31.45% 20 be) will lower pH by 0.1 and lower TA by 1.8ppm. When you get the PM app, there is a menu on top left, use Effects of Adding and select the chemical you are using, and it will calculate the effects based on your pool volume.

Hope all of this helps and answers your questions. If not, just ask again.

 

[Mdragger88]

To add to what Herman said, for increasing salt that much you want to turn the swg off until it is dissolved (24hr) lest you risk a slug of concentrated salt water zapping your cell. A bag or so is one thing but 1500 ppm is another story.
You should chlorinate manually with liquid chlorine at that time according to the FC/CYA Levels.
If you add the cya via socks infront of returns you will be immediately putting it in the bulk of the pool water so if backwashing becomes necessary it is no big deal. You would also want to immediately chlorinate assuming your new cya level.
Basically yes, all the things can be done in short succession of one another, allow 15/30 minutes between acid & chlorine doses.
Lower ph with ma according to PoolMath,
Turn off salt cell, add salt,
Add liquid chlorine to reach target fc for assumed new cya level,
Hang cya socks (not touching pool wall) - squeeze socks occasionally whilst brushing salt around, swimming & enjoying your pool
24 hrs later test salt & cya, if salt is in range turn swg back on.
There is one piece of the puzzle that’s missing here, what swg do you have? Tfp’s recommendations for salt levels are generic so they cover a wide range of common swg’s but what the manual calls for is king.

 

[BullishBear]

Thank you again @HermanTX ! and thank you for additional context @Mdragger88 ! I have noted down all the suggestions.

The original SWG was Hayward but the one in place now is BLUE WORKS Salt Cell Model Number: BLW1T9H (https://www.blueworkspool.com/blueworks-blw1tcellh-salt-cell-product/). Based on the product specifications in a 3rd party website (Water Chemistry - Blueworks BLSC Installation And Operation Manual [Page 6]) it needs to be at least 3000 ppm. Also the control board display is no longer working so I used the Tayler K-1766 kit to figure out the salt level (I will collate all specifics about the make/model numbers of all equipments and add to my profile soon).

Follow up questions:
1. I setup PM app and made use of "Effects of Adding" (super cool!). It says, adding 4 pounds of dry stabilizer will increase CYA by 28 ppm but also reduce pH by 0.5 which is perfect as my latest pH reading is at 8. Does it mean, I can kill two birds in one stone and skip adding MA?
2. Per TFP article (Chlorine / CYA Chart), after increasing CYA to 60-70 my target FC will be 3-5 which is the current level. I understand, since SWG will be off for 24 hours during the salt addition process it is better to bump the FC a little bit. Sellers have left couple of packets of cal-hypo (not sure about the % but will lookup). Is it OK to use that or should I strictly use liquid chlorine?
3. For Salt, again per TFP's recommendation, able to locate this one. This is correct? https://www.heb.com/product-detail/morton-pure-and-natural-reg-water-softener-salt-crystals/2119283
4. For Dry Stabilizer, there are ample of options. Kindly advise which brand and shop is best to go for? Given I need to run pump and filter for 24 hours for Salt I would stick to dry version than liquid.

 

[Mdragger88]

1- definitely take the acidic effect of the cya into consideration before adding acid since your Ta is 50 now. If your water is fairly warm the cya should dissolve pretty quickly (within a couple hours) & then maybe re check ph & adjust if necessary.
2. New fc target for 70 cya is 5, bare minimum is 3, you don’t want to play kissy face with minimum. Running a scootch above 5 is the safest bet so incase of any variables occur minimum isn’t broached. I personally like to aim for 10% of cya level so I know I’m covered & it easy to remember - 70 cya =7ppm fc.
I would err on the higher side of caution until you retest cya. Going a dab higher than target with fc doesn’t hurt anything, but skirting minimum is asking for trouble.
Using a little cal hypo would be fine, just be aware it adds calcium.
3. That salt looks fine
4. I usually use the clorox granular cya mainly because of price & ease of availability but any dry stabilizer should do so long as it is 100% cya.
You got it all covered

 

[HermanTX]

The only thing I would add to the above is that Home Depot is your friend. They have Liquid Chlorine and Dry Stabilizer and Pool Salt. You can purchase online for pickup or go to store directly.

Your CH was 475ppm in an earlier test. With Cal-Hypo you will increase CH more - look at Effects of Adding in PM app based on your % of Cal-Hypo you have. Liquid Chlorine provides a faster punch to increase FC quickly.

Looks like you have everything under control.

 

[BullishBear]

@Mdragger88 & @HermanTX Y"all are awesome. Thanks a lot!

 

[BullishBear]

I have purchased 6 40 lbs of Diamond Crystal Solar White Crystals, 5 lb of PoolTime Dry Stabilizer, and 4 gallons of Liquid Chlorine (wanted to go for Bleach but was not confident on which one to pick especially without scent/extra formulas, etc.).

Planning to test Salt, FC, pH tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, CYA reagent is delivering end of day tomorrow so will not be able to test it. I will be adding 4 bags of Salt & 4 lbs of CYA & 1 gallon of liquid chlorine first. Over the weekend will test again and then decide the next steps.

Quick question, there is a Polaris 280 pressure vaccum in the pool. Do I need to disconnect and remove it from the pool during this process or let it sit in the pool? I have never disconnected it so far, checked out YouTube seems to be straight forward unless there is calcification given my CH is higher. Also is it OK to simply remove and place the cleaner outside the pool while being connected (of course, the cleaner pump will be off).

 

[BullishBear]

• Backwash filter
• Turn off SWG
• Turn on Filter and program to run for 24 hours
• Remove Polaris vacuum from the pool (is this needed?)
• Dump Salt and Spread with Brush
• Add 1 gallon of Liquid Chlorine into the pool directly
• 30 mins later — Gradually start adding dissolved CYA (using warm water in a bucket) into Skimmer or the Sock method hanging from the Skimmer pole (avoid clogging the exit points).
• Turn on SWG 24 hours later
• Test the results 48 hours later
• Based on readings repeat Salt & CYA if needed; Figure out next steps for pH & TA.

If anything stands off, please let me know!

 

[CRAD_oz]

Quick question, there is a Polaris 280 pressure vaccum in the pool. Do I need to disconnect and remove it from the pool during this process or let it sit in the pool? I have never disconnected it so far, checked out YouTube seems to be straight forward unless there is calcification given my CH is higher. Also is it OK to simply remove and place the cleaner outside the pool while being connected (of course, the cleaner pump will be off).

No need to remove while adding chemicals to the pool.
Don't remove the cleaner from the pool with it still connected even if the booster pump is off. Some waer can still flow through the cleaner while the filter pump is running. Also if you forget to put it back into the pool and the booster kicks in you could drain a fair amount of the pool

 

[BullishBear]

No need to remove while adding chemicals to the pool.
Don't remove the cleaner from the pool with it still connected even if the booster pump is off. Some waer can still flow through the cleaner while the filter pump is running. Also if you forget to put it back into the pool and the booster kicks in you could drain a fair amount of the pool

@CRAD_oz Thanks for the clarification, noted!

 

[HermanTX]

I recommend using the sock method to put in the stabilizer. Also, only put in 1/2 or 2/3 of what you think you need. Let it dissolve, wait 48hrs and test. This ensures you do not overshoot your CYA target.

Same with salt (but add directly to pool), but only need to wait about 24 hrs to test if you brush and ensure it is well mixed.

 

[BullishBear]

@HermanTX Sure, I did the same. Just before the procedure, I tested for Salt (1600 ppm), FC (4 ppm), CC (<0.5 ppm). Per PoolMath calculations, I require 4 lbs of CYA and I added 2 lbs; About 220 lbs of Salt and I added 160 lbs. Also added 0.5 gallons of 7.4% bleach (some were left by Sellers) which will bump, per PoolMath, by 2.5.

Completed:

• Backwash filter
• Turn off SWG
• Turn on Filter and program to run for 24 hours
• Remove Polaris vacuum from the pool (is this needed?)
• Dump Salt and Spread with Brush
• Add 1 gallon of Liquid Chlorine into the pool directly

In Progress:

• 30 mins later — Gradually start adding dissolved CYA (using warm water in a bucket) into Skimmer or the Sock method hanging from the Skimmer pole (avoid clogging the exit points). Will keep squeezing the sock every 3-4 hours.

Next:

• Turn on SWG 24 hours later
• Test the results 48 hours later
• Based on readings repeat Salt & CYA if needed; Figure out next steps for pH & TA.

 

[BullishBear]

@HermanTX @Mdragger88 @CRAD_oz
Question on Salt & FC levels between tests:

During the test conducted on 9/27, CYA was 40 ppm, Salt was 1600 ppm and FC was 3 ppm.
During today's test, Salt is 1600 ppm and FC is 4 ppm.

Given low CYA levels (40 ppm) and Salt levels, and the fact that the FC increased from 3 to 4 ppm in 2 days does it mean that my SWG is still able to produce some chlorine in these low salt levels? Btw, the SWG output was set to 50% and pump was running for 10 hours each night. I read in articles that SWG doesn't produce any chlorine if salt levels are in these levels. Any thoughts?

 

[HermanTX]

I forget what SWCG you have, but it is functioning with a low salt level? What the sensor on a SWCG reads and what a Salt test results can be different. The function of your SWCG is based on its own sensor to say it is working

 

[wireform]

While it's good to trust only the K-1766 salinity test kit, the display may or may not be accurate and don't add your salt due to the fact. If the cell isn't complaining then let it be but it may just not be as efficient if it had a higher salinity.

 

[BullishBear]

I forget what SWCG you have, but it is functioning with a low salt level? What the sensor on a SWCG reads and what a Salt test results can be different. The function of your SWCG is based on its own sensor to say it is working

Added the details to my signature! Yes, the K-1766 twice resulted in 1600 ppm yet the SWG running at 50% output for 10 + 10 hours of running time bumped FC from 3 ppm to 4 ppm over 2 days.

 

[BullishBear]

@HermanTX @Mdragger88

Update: All planned treatment completed in baby steps (i.e. 50% to 60% of required levels of CYA & Salt). Since this was my first ever attempt, wanted to be extra careful. Performed a complete test today after 60 hours since the start of the treatment.

Treatment & Test Results:
On 9/27/22: FC = 3; CC = 0.5; pH = 8.0; TA = 50; CH = 475; CYA = Not Tested; Salt = 1600
On 9/29/22 (just before the start of the treatment): FC = 4 ppm; CC = 0 ppm; Salt = 1600 ppm; CYA was not tested due to R-0013 unavailability.
Added 2 lbs of dry stabilizer; 160 lbs of Salt; 0.5 gallons of 7.4% bleach. SWG was off & Pump/Filter was set to run 24 hours.
On 9/30/22 (after 24 hours of pump runtime): FC = 3 ppm; CC = 0; Salt = 2600 ppm; CYA was not tested as it wasn't 48 hours yet.
Turned on SWG and set pump/filter to normal schedule i.e. 10 hours over night.
On 10/1/22 (after 60 hours after treatment): FC = 4 ppm; CC = 0; pH = 7.8; CYA = 50; Salt = 2600 ppm; TA = Not tested as PoolMath indicated no impact; CH = Not tested as PoolMath indicated no impact.

Next Steps:
* Add 80 lbs of Salt which per PoolMath adds 562 ppm taking the Pool's Salt to 3100ish ppm.
* Add 2.5 lbs of Dry Stabilizer which per PoolMath adds 18 ppm of CYA resulting finally in 60~=70 ppm. Also lowers pH by 0.3 resulting finally in 7.5.
* Test TA to confirm whether it remains at 50. If yes, add 5 lbs of Baking Soda (no impact to pH under 6 lbs of Baking Soda w.r.t my Pool per PoolMath) adds 21 ppm resulting finally in 70 ppm.
* Test FC w.r.t CYA and figure out next steps to update SWG output which is set to 50% as of now.

Question:
1. Any specific instructions on how to add Baking Soda? Can it be added along with CYA & Salt or needs an ordered sequence?
2. Curious to know whether it is a must to run pump for 24 hours continuously or it is OK to add CYA using my normal run schedule i.e. 10 hours runtime every night. Meaning, the CYA will get mixed into the pool gradually over two nights instead of next 24 hours. I'm in no rush but at the same time I don't want to sabotage the treatment. Please let me know your thoughts.