So this just happened....

[JoyfulNoise]

It wasn’t in the water all the time or all year long.

Initially I only used it during the swim season when the pool was “open”, ie, kids out of school and swimming. So for the first 3 years I used it from May to Oct. And during those first few years, it always came out of the pool after cleaning, got hosed off and would sit under my porch awning. I would use it about 3 days/week or so. When “winter” arrived, the robot would go in my garage and sit there. It was really only the last two seasons that I left it in the pool a lot and that was because of family issues at the time (my mother-in-law and my dad passed away with in 4 months of one another). So the pool got very little direct attention while dealing with that. It’s too bad their units don’t have a “run time” accumulator on them as it would be nice to know how much use they actually get used. I suspect it’s NOT 10,000 hours …

But care and use matter with these robots. If you take them in and out and keep them dry in between use and don’t leave them out in the elements, they can last a long time.

It still makes no sense to me for Dolphin to not supply critical parts. By doing that, they are basically ticking off a small segment of their customer base that prefers to fix the things they have rather than buy new. The vast majority of their customers are going to throw broken robots away and buy new so it’s not like there’s a serious threat to their bottom line from tinkerers fixing their robots. All they’ve done is antagonize people like me which makes me (1) never want to do business with them again, and, (2) trash talk their product as much as possible. I suppose they don’t care but it gives me a nice little grin on my face every time I convince someone NOT to buy a Dolphin robot . I’m up to three nixed sales … hoping to double that by the end of the season.

 

[Newdude]

I wonder if it's like that Volvo they designed that needed the dealer to open the hood. They were sure their clientele wasn't messing with it so they removed the latch/ pull handle.

Quite frankly, I am a tinkerer, but have half the pool season you do. If my robot broke 10 years later, I wouldn't even think about putting any time/effort/money into fixing it.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

….If my robot broke 10 years later, I wouldn't even think about putting any time/effort/money into fixing it.

I wouldn’t either (except to take it apart out of curiosity) …. but 5 years is unacceptable to me. Others have different tolerance. But for me, $1150 for 5 years is not worth it.

I just saw a Dolphin advertisement for their “advanced” robot that they were asking $1,780 for … are you ****** kidding me?!!! Nearly two grand for a robot that will likely die in 5 years??? As PT Barnum said, “There’s a sucker born every minute…”

 

[Mdragger88]

$500 is my limit-
So $100/season if it lasts 5yrs to have my pool cleaned automatically every day is tolerable for me. I don’t suggest folks go for all the bells & whistles- the roi just isn’t there.

 

[red-beard]

knowing what I know now, I'll be pulling mine out more often. When I was out of town, I pulled it. I like having it in there because I know the pool is being cleaned between 5 and 7 AM each morning. The whole point of the more expensive robots is they are on a schedule to clean. For that to work, they have to live in the water.

T.O.M. and his crappy brother TT2000 will both have to die before I buy a new robot. At this point, I will probably replace them with an S200 or equal. They really clean better than the Polaris units.

 

[Toxophilite]

I wonder if it's like that Volvo they designed that needed the dealer to open the hood. They were sure their clientele wasn't messing with it so they removed the latch/ pull handle.

Quite frankly, I am a tinkerer, but have half the pool season you do. If my robot broke 10 years later, I wouldn't even think about putting any time/effort/money into fixing it.

I don't think those of us who fix or work on things are any market size to be of concern at all. With the lack of interested intellect in some repair fields these day, I imagine a robust repair center for smaller goods would be a total cost of comeback nightmare, so why not plan, build, and market around this constraint. Heck, I did repair work for a living so long, I am now prone to be more of the disposable commodity generation(s) than not.

 

[Apsuhead]

Now my Greenworks 40v trimmer motor died. It stopped and was smoking at the end. I took it all apart and tried to find the motor online, no luck. Luckily the whole trimmer is only about $60 online for the tool only. These darn brushed motors

 

[randytsuch]

I had one an aquabot for many years, and bought parts for it and kept it going. Then a motor died and it wasn't worth repairing at that point, they wanted a lot for the motor.
So I bought a aquabot rover, and had it for many more years. Then it's power supply died, it was too expensive to buy new power supply to fix an old cleaner.

Seems like you can buy still buy parts for an aquabot. They seem to use the car industry model, sell spare parts for 10x the cost of the car. Saw a price of $550 for a motor for an $850 Breeze.

These days I am in manual mode. I bought a new vac head this year, along with a new pole. Makes vacuuming much faster and easier. And my daughter and her boyfriend don't mind doing the work which makes it MUCH easier.
I do still have to setup and put away the stuff, but I can handle that.

Randy

 

[scdaren]

Sorry to hear your robot experience ended up like this @JoyfulNoise. I'm in my 3rd season of my Warrior Si, no issues to date other than decomposing power cords (and they replaced the first under warranty).

I keep mine in the pool year-round, mostly because it's more convenient, especially with the Crud way their scheduling works I can just hit it the button once a week in the winter. The only time it's ever out is when swimming, and then it strictly stays in the shade.

But I have always thought this was better for the robot, based on the theory that something that runs wet is better off staying wet, and that regular wetting/drying cycles (along with the associated temperature swings) would cause problems over time, particularly with seals and plastic components. Sounds like you think differently?

Admittedly, I'm no expert and this is probably one of those instances my wife brings up where I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but am really just bullshitting.

I like the robot, but I'm not 100% sure I'll get another when it eventually breaks. My suction system did have some advantages, not the least of which is ease of automation with my pool pump.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sorry to hear your robot experience ended up like this @JoyfulNoise. I'm in my 3rd season of my Warrior Si, no issues to date other than decomposing power cords (and they replaced the first under warranty).

I keep mine in the pool year-round, mostly because it's more convenient, especially with the Crud way their scheduling works I can just hit it the button once a week in the winter. The only time it's ever out is when swimming, and then it strictly stays in the shade.

But I have always thought this was better for the robot, based on the theory that something that runs wet is better off staying wet, and that regular wetting/drying cycles (along with the associated temperature swings) would cause problems over time, particularly with seals and plastic components. Sounds like you think differently?

Admittedly, I'm no expert and this is probably one of those instances my wife brings up where I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but am really just bullshitting.

I like the robot, but I'm not 100% sure I'll get another when it eventually breaks. My suction system did have some advantages, not the least of which is ease of automation with my pool pump.

Well, I'm glad I went through it because I learned a lot. And no I can very accurately trash-talk Dolphin robots without, as your wife might say, being full of BS ...

In reality, I do not know how long your robot will last. There are 5 points of water incursion into the motor assembly and the only thing that stands in the way of that are rubber o-rings ... it's only a matter of time before one fails and the motor is toast. Could be year 4, 5, 7, 9 ... no-one knows. Hopefully you can get as much life out of it as possible and then my advice is to trash it and find a new cleaner. If it's a robot, so be it but at least you'll know what to expect ...

 

[DrewLG]

for me, $1150 for 5 years is not worth it.

For me, the 5-year energy savings versus my current pressure-side cleaner would -- conservatively -- add up to $1825. I'd break even if the robot only lasted 3 years.

Hmm, maybe I should get a robot.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

For me, the 5-year energy savings versus my current pressure-side cleaner would -- conservatively -- add up to $1825. I'd break even even if the robot only lasted 3 years.

Hmm, maybe I should get a robot.

I totally believe that. Because (A) pressure cleaners need to use booster pumps which are HUGE energy hogs, and (B) California utility rates are ridiculously high (unless you can run your pool pad off solar PV). My suction side cleaner runs off of the hydraulic power supplied by the pump. I've tuned it to run reliably when the POOL Mode is running (or at higher speeds when the spa spillover is running). So it technically does not use any more energy than is already being expended by the pool pump to skim and generate chlorine. I initially tried modifying my pump speeds and timings after getting the robot but really did not find one that was much lower. So, in my case, there was perhaps some very minor amounts of energy savings but it wasn't substantial and nowhere near enough to get the ROI under 5 years.

Pressure cleaners are really relics of the past. I don't think there is anyway to make them energy efficient and I have not heard of any that can run reliably off the pool pump, they all need booster pumps. Perhaps if someone came up with a more efficient booster pump, then perhaps they could be made more energy efficient but I doubt that will ever happen. Robots win hands-down in terms of the amount of water moved per unit of energy supplied but considering their poor lifetimes, the economics don't work out in their favor.

 

[red-beard]

@JoyfulNoise I saw a design on the internet where the person pulled the restrictor from the Pressure Side Cleaner. Then they put a valve in place of the pump. They tried different speeds from the VFD until the wheel rotational speed was correct, when meant the flow was correct. To activate the cleaner, the valve is opened and the speed adjusts to "cleaner" speed. This is supposed to save a huge amount of electricity over running the pressure side pump. I was considering this until I bought the robot.
Honestly, the robot cleans the bottom better. With the pleated filters, it collects so much dust and fine particles. I can see the difference.

 

[scdaren]

For me, the 5-year energy savings versus my current pressure-side cleaner would -- conservatively -- add up to $1825. I'd break even if the robot only lasted 3 years.

Hmm, maybe I should get a robot.

Even with suction side cleaners there is that issue. With the robot, I never run my pump over 50% unless we are swimming and I want the water features going. My suction cleaner needed 90-100%. With some conservative back of the napkin math, my $750 robot paid for itself in 2 years, maybe closer to 1 year. Plus I keep all the Crud out of my filters.

 

[SDor]

Pressure cleaners are really relics of the past. I don't think there is anyway to make them energy efficient and I have not heard of any that can run reliably off the pool pump, they all need booster pumps. Perhaps if someone came up with a more efficient booster pump, then perhaps they could be made more energy efficient but I doubt that will ever happen.

Polaris does sell a more energy efficient booster pump. The PB4SQ. I have one, it is both quiet and ~30% more efficient than their standard booster pump. Not as cheap as a robot, but I'm now past my 5th year with it so hopefully not as "consumable" as a robot.

 

[Katodude]

Y’all are also forgetting about the brushing aspects of a robot. HATE HATE HATE brushing a pool. Robot is worth it for the cleaner pool it provides and the lack of brushing.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Y’all are also forgetting about the brushing aspects of a robot. HATE HATE HATE brushing a pool. Robot is worth it for the cleaner pool it provides and the lack of brushing.

I don’t consider the wall brushing of a robot to be effective. The rubber brushes are soft and flexible. They likely do little to nothing for wall brushing. Sure, wall brushing is a nuisance, but it’s literally a 10min job in my pool and I usually do it when adding acid to make sure everything is mixed. YMMV.

 

[red-beard]

My old pressure side cleaner was 1500 Watts and needed 3 hours a day for cleaning. My Triton PS Plus (S300i) uses 200 Watts at 2 hours per day. Savings is 3.9kW per day. Over two years this would be 2847 kWh. Electricity would need to be 26.4 cents/kWh. I know my sister's top rate in San Diego is around 40 cents/kWh. I know the rates in Hawaii higher.
My rate in Texas is presently 11.5 cents/kWh. It is about to jump to ~13.5 cents/kWh.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

My pool never needed daily cleaning. Every other day at most or, more typically, every 3rd day. So my use was a lot less. Also, my electrical rates are A LOT lower than in CA. So the amount of savings is minimal. As I said, in my use-case, the pool pump runs on a schedule no matter if the robot was in the pool or not. So the suction cleaner does not increase my energy usage at all. There wasn’t any lower speeds or runtimes that I was satisfied with so switching to a robot never really saved me any significant costs associated with running the pool pump. In that case, the suction cleaner does better because it’s utilizing the energy that’s already being spent to skim and create chlorine. As has been pointed out many times, mileage may vary because not every pool has the same plumbing setup.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Y’all are also forgetting about the brushing aspects of a robot. HATE HATE HATE brushing a pool. Robot is worth it for the cleaner pool it provides and the lack of brushing.

This is the only reason I have a robot. May not be as effective as the actual pool brush but it's way more effective than me not using the pool brush.

--Jeff