Metered dosing of chlorine during daylight using Stenner pump

[sparcel]

I'm planning to install a peristaltic pump for chlorine and have a couple questions:

1. Chlorine Pumping Schedule

Normally the advise for manually pouring chlorine into a pool is to do so at night (or very early in the morning), but it occurred to me with a peristaltic pump I could schedule a pump to run at a low dispensing rate during the daylight hours so-as to feed the chlorine into the pool at a pace similar to the burn-off rate so that my chlorine stays at a fairly constant somewhat lower level rather than adding ~2ppm at night, and then having it slowly drop during the daylight hours. Is this ok? Does the slow pace I would use (6.4 oz / hour) and the dispensing location (2 feet under top of water) eliminate the downsides of adding during sunlight hours?

2. Dispensing Directly into Pool

Being that I have what is likely a 60+ year old pool, I'd rather not risk pumping the chlorine in through the filtration system copper pipes. Therefore I'm planning to pump roughly 2 quarts per day (~6.4 oz per hour over 10 hours) directly into the pool using a 1/4 in tube releasing at perhaps 2 feet deep in the deep end. Any reason this could cause a problem such as staining? (My pool is a classic old style in-ground plaster pool.) (I realize there could be safety concerns about kids having potential access to the liquid chlorine. or people messing with the 1/4 feed tube, but I feel I can manage those risks.)

3. Risk to Swimmers

Is there a risk to swimmers if adding at a rate of 6.4 oz per hour (or .1 oz per minute) while they are swimming? (Other than them grabbing the feed tube and playing with it or putting it into their mouth, etc.)

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Hi Sparcel!

Sorry you haven't received any responses yet. I may be able to provide a bit of help.

Normally the advise for manually pouring chlorine into a pool is to do so at night (or very early in the morning), but it occurred to me with a peristaltic pump I could schedule a pump to run at a low dispensing rate during the daylight hours so-as to feed the chlorine into the pool at a pace similar to the burn-off rate so that my chlorine stays at a fairly constant somewhat lower level rather than adding ~2ppm at night, and then having it slowly drop during the daylight hours. Is this ok? Does the slow pace I would use (6.4 oz / hour) and the dispensing location (2 feet under top of water) eliminate the downsides of adding during sunlight hours?

I'm not sure where you heard it's best to dose chlorine at night, but it doesn't sound right to me. Your plan of dosing chlorine at slow pace to maintain minimum FC levels during the day makes sense. This is basically how SWGs operate. With this strategy, you could use SWG guidelines for FC/CYA levels. FC/CYA Levels

Being that I have what is likely a 60+ year old pool, I'd rather not risk pumping the chlorine in through the filtration system copper pipes. Therefore I'm planning to pump roughly 2 quarts per day (~6.4 oz per hour over 10 hours) directly into the pool using a 1/4 in tube releasing at perhaps 2 feet deep in the deep end. Any reason this could cause a problem such as staining? (My pool is a classic old style in-ground plaster pool.) (I realize there could be safety concerns about kids having potential access to the liquid chlorine. or people messing with the 1/4 feed tube, but I feel I can manage those risks.)

I'm not sure chlorine is corrosive to copper pipes. Low pH has a much greater effect on copper. Either way, I don't think running a tube directly to the pool is the best way to add chlorine with a Stenner (for the reasons in the quote below). It may be a better idea to dilute chlorine in the tank and extend the dosing cycle or increase output.

Is there a risk to swimmers if adding at a rate of 6.4 oz per hour (or .1 oz per minute) while they are swimming? (Other than them grabbing the feed tube and playing with it or putting it into their mouth, etc.)

I wouldn't risk it.

Full disclosure, I'm not a Stenner user, but let's see what others have to say...

Best wishes!

 

[sparcel]

Hi Sparcel!

Sorry you haven't received any responses yet. I may be able to provide a bit of help.

I'm not sure where you heard it's best to dose chlorine at night, but it doesn't sound right to me. Your plan of dosing chlorine at slow pace to maintain minimum FC levels during the day makes sense. This is basically how SWGs operate. With this strategy, you could use SWG guidelines for FC/CYA levels. FC/CYA Levels

I'm not sure chlorine is corrosive to copper pipes. Low pH has a much greater effect on copper. Either way, I don't think running a tube directly to the pool is the best way to add chlorine with a Stenner (for the reasons in the quote below). It may be a better idea to dilute chlorine in the tank and extend the dosing cycle or increase output.

I wouldn't risk it.

Full disclosure, I'm not a Stenner user, but let's see what others have to say...

Best wishes!

Thanks Rancho Cost-a-lotta, it is interesting that you think that it may be good to manage my chlorine and cya like a SWG pool. I would not have guessed they would be similar just because I could pump in chlorine slowly during the day - but I suppose it is possible. Paticularly cya levels. My cya level is currently 50, which is ok, but I was thinking 40 or 30 would be a little more ideal- not the 60 or 70 of a SWG pool.

Also, I could imagine that the way SWG generated chlorine integrates with the pool water may or may no be the same immediately after the chlorine hits the pool.

I’ve considered putting in an SWG system, and I’ve read on TFP that if well managed (ph, alkalinity, and sacrificial anode) the chlorine and salt from that could be ok for my copper pipes, but I am a little too paranoid to risk it.

As far as impact of just pumping liquid chlorine jnto copper pipes (and the high ph of it), I’ve read most of what has been said on this topic on TFP and did not come away with a lot of confidence that the levels from a peristaltic pump would be a safe bet. My calculations are that I could easily have 20 to 100 ppm chlorine levels in the pipes even at a slow Stenner pump rate, and those levels don’t seem to be discussed as safe for the pipes.

As for swimmer safety, if I were to dilute the chlorine in a tank before injecting straight directly into the pool I could see it helping some - though at the .1 oz per minute of liquid chlorine over 10 hours I could only reduce the actual chlorine per minute rate by 2.4x if I ran it 24 hours a day. I'm curious, if .1 oz per minute from a 1/4 tube may not be safe, then what would be? .01 oz per minute, .001 ? I wonder how one could calculate this. (I can always just turn off the chlorine pump when there will be swimmers, but nevertheless I'm curious.)

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

@JoyfulNoise, do you have any input on the effects chlorine produced by SWG and Stenner systems on copper plumbing? How about SWG salt levels?

 

[sparcel]

Hi Sparcel!

Sorry you haven't received any responses yet. I may be able to provide a bit of help.

I'm not sure where you heard it's best to dose chlorine at night, but it doesn't sound right to me. Your plan of dosing chlorine at slow pace to maintain minimum FC levels during the day makes sense. This is basically how SWGs operate. With this strategy, you could use SWG guidelines for FC/CYA levels. FC/CYA Levels

I'm not sure chlorine is corrosive to copper pipes. Low pH has a much greater effect on copper. Either way, I don't think running a tube directly to the pool is the best way to add chlorine with a Stenner (for the reasons in the quote below). It may be a better idea to dilute chlorine in the tank and extend the dosing cycle or increase output.

I wouldn't risk it.

Full disclosure, I'm not a Stenner user, but let's see what others have to say...

Best wishes!

@JoyfulNoise, do you have any input on the effects chlorine produced by SWG and Stenner systems on copper plumbing? How about SWG salt levels?

Rancho Cost-a-lotta,

I certainly welcome new inputs Joyfulnoise may have on that, but there are already a few threads on the impact of high chlorine and swg on copper pipe.

—scott

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Understood. One of the reasons I responded to your post is because there had been no responses for several hours. I was hoping to solicit additional input, but your situation is somewhat unique.

That aside, I don't see anything inherently wrong with your plan.

 

[sparcel]

Thanks, I appreciate your responses! They are making me think and be curious.

 

[sparcel]

Rancho Cost-a-lotta,

I see I’m continuing not to get responses from others. I tried changing the thread title but it did not appear to make a difference. I have a hard time believing people don’t have an opinion about at least the first part of the question as I assume there are a lot of Stenner pump users on TFP. Any suggestion on how I can get more responses? Should I just be patient? Should I try posting a new thread with a better title? If so, any suggestion for a title?

 

[Triumph65]

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta

Your plan of dosing chlorine at slow pace to maintain minimum FC levels during the day makes sense. This is basically how SWGs operate. With this strategy, you could use SWG guidelines for FC/CYA levels.

I also use a chlorine dosing pump, although mine is a rolachem. It’s a simple motor with an analog dial. I just turn it up or down. It adds chlorine in doses, during the day (8am - 8pm) when pump is running.
My CYA is currently 40. Should I consider using the SWG CYA guidelines as well, since I’m using a chlorine pump?
I’d like to learn more about this if there is further reading on it.
Thanks!

 

[sparcel]

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta


I also use a chlorine dosing pump, although mine is a rolachem. It’s a simple motor with an analog dial. I just turn it up or down. It adds chlorine in doses, during the day (8am - 8pm) when pump is running.
My CYA is currently 40. Should I consider using the SWG CYA guidelines as well, since I’m using a chlorine pump?
I’d like to learn more about this if there is further reading on it.
Thanks!

Reading this thread on TFP seems to inform on why people use higher cya with SWG systems. I suppose it could save money on chlorine in non SWG pools also, but I would not be inclined to raise my cya for that purpose guven the recommendation to try to keep between 30-50 in a non swg pool. In a SWP pool the dominant monetary concern is life of the SWG cells, and It appears that running them less extends their life. I don’t see why this same logic of higher could not apply even if adding liquid chlorine manually - yet it does not appear to be advocated by TFP.

Note I’m new to all this, but that is my take on what I’m reading.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Rancho Cost-a-lotta,

I see I’m continuing not to get responses from others. I tried changing the thread title but it did not appear to make a difference. I have a hard time believing people don’t have an opinion about at least the first part of the question as I assume there are a lot of Stenner pump users on TFP. Any suggestion on how I can get more responses? Should I just be patient? Should I try posting a new thread with a better title? If so, any suggestion for a title?

I can't answer why others aren't responding. The popular kids are installing SWGs and we don't see a large number of members inquiring about chlorine injection systems. I kicked the idea around a bit before deciding to buy another SWG. I did a bit of research and decided I didn't want to go through the trouble of procuring and handling bulk loads of chlorine.

 

[Triumph65]

Reading this thread on TFP seems to inform on why people use higher cya with SWG systems. I suppose it could save money on chlorine in non SWG pools also, but I would not be inclined to raise my cya for that purpose guven the recommendation to try to keep between 30-50 in a non swg pool. In a SWP pool the dominant monetary concern is life of the SWG cells, and It appears that running them less extends their life. I don’t see why this same logic of higher could not apply even if adding liquid chlorine manually - yet it does not appear to be advocated by TFP.

Note I’m new to all this, but that is my take on what I’m reading

Thanks @sparcel

 

[Triumph65]

I can't answer why others aren't responding. The popular kids are installing SWGs and we don't see a large number of members inquiring about chlorine injection systems. I kicked the idea around a bit before deciding to buy another SWG. I did a bit of research and decided I didn't want to go through the trouble of procuring and handling bulk loads of chlorine

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta - I wish SWG was an option for me. The amount of liquid chlorine I have to put in this full sun 48,000 gallon pool is expensive!!
Unfortunately I have flagstone coping and a good bit of my flagstone waterfalls that are under the waterline.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Reading this thread on TFP seems to inform on why people use higher cya with SWG systems. I suppose it could save money on chlorine in non SWG pools also, but I would not be inclined to raise my cya for that purpose guven the recommendation to try to keep between 30-50 in a non swg pool. In a SWP pool the dominant monetary concern is life of the SWG cells, and It appears that running them less extends their life. I don’t see why this same logic of higher could not apply even if adding liquid chlorine manually - yet it does not appear to be advocated by TFP.

Note I’m new to all this, but that is my take on what I’m reading.

I agree. The primary justification in maintaining a higher CYA level is less FC loss as a result of UV degradation. With a SWG, this not only means savings in chlorine costs, but it also extends the life of cell; win win.

When set up to dispense chlorine in the same way a SWG does (slow release over the course of a day in the sun), a chlorine injection system can use higher CYA levels because consistent FC levels are maintained throughout the day. Higher CYA levels translate to less FC loss to UV; win.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

You might try posting a new thread regarding recommended CYA levels for Stenner/Chlorine Injection Systems...maybe in the deep end forum. As the tag under my name infers, I'm no expert. From a "common-sense" point of view, it makes sense to me.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta - I wish SWG was an option for me. The amount of liquid chlorine I have to put in this full sun 48,000 gallon pool is expensive!!
Unfortunately I have flagstone coping and a good bit of my flagstone waterfalls that are under the waterline.

Sounds expensive. The CircuPool RJ-60 claims to produce 3.1 lbs. of chlorine gas per day. You'd need to run at 100% for 12-13 hours to make up for daily loss.

It's hard to convince everyone, but it's TFP's position that the salt levels required for SWGs don't damage pool surfaces/stone. Bad chemistry and cheap materials are to blame.

 

[Triumph65]

You might try posting a new thread regarding recommended CYA levels for Stenner/Chlorine Injection Systems...maybe in the deep end forum. As the tag under my name infers, I'm no expert. From a "common-sense" point of view, it makes sense to me.

Sounds like a good idea! I’ll search to see if there are any other threads and if not will post question.
Thanks!!

 

[Triumph65]

Sounds expensive. The CircuPool RJ-60 claims to produce 3.1 lbs. of chlorine gas per day. You'd need to run at 100% for 12-13 hours to make up for daily loss.

It's hard to convince everyone, but it's TFP's position that the salt levels required for SWGs don't damage pool surfaces/stone. Bad chemistry and cheap materials are to blame.

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta - If an SWG is in any way an option for me I’d jump on it. 3ppm loss a day for me is close to a gallon and a half of chlorine a day. I’ll search threads on SWG and stone and see what I find.
Thanks!!

Sorry to interrupt OP’s thread but at least keeping it at top for him so he can get his questions answered

 

[tim5055]

For my Stener in sunny Columbia SC I kept my CYA at 50

Night or day it really doesn't matter

Is this pool plumbed with all copper lines all the way to the pool?

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

@Triumph65 When searching for swgs, remember not all 60,000 gallon units are the same. Compare chlorine production in pounds per day. Pureline (Inyo Pool) has a 60k unit that's rated at 3.18 lb per day.