Case study to determine root cause of Pentair mastertemp 400 not igniting

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Ok guys,
maybe ill cut off the elbow just to see if there is steel in the tube and the pvc is just a rust sleeve?
But seems like the consensus is a lousy job and patch work all around...
If Im already invested this far, why not go all the way, and can opt for 2" to be safe, since its 125 feet min before factoring in a bunch of elbow fittings/couplers...
 
A sleeve would need to be labeled “Natural Gas Sleeve” instead of “Gas”.

In any case, a sleeve cannot have a hard 90 like the one shown.

There's no way an internal line could be put through a hard 90.

You would need all straight sleeve for iron pipe or a really big sweep 90 for flexible plastic pipe.
 
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Sounds like a plan. You might cut into it and find it's just a 3/4" steel pipe that comes out further down, explaining how you got from yellow pipe to steel pipe.
Or it might be a janky 1970s-esque cowboy install of actual PVC gas line, but using cheap elbows (and fittings are the most failure prone part**).

Going all new, you at least know it was done right. I'll do all kinds of plumbing work except gas. I leave that to the pros, if for no other reason than it critically needs to be inspected and the inspector is expecting a licensed pro to have done the work.

** a few years ago I had an underground leak on the return side of my pool plumbing. I dug it up and found a cracked elbow. I replaced that and in a couple of days a tee downstream had developed a leak. Replaced that and an elbow at the next return was leaking. At that point I dug it all up and replaced all the fittings with sch. 80. Overkill? Maybe. But it fits the sch 40 pipe just fine and is twice as thick. I wound up re-working the entire pool pad and found a suction leak from the main drain in the process. Looking back, it all started 1 year after having the pool replastered. My deck has also lifted a bit, so I wonder if the pool started to float just a little and it cracked all my fittings.
 
If you do low pressure, a 1.5" line should be ok.

Alternatively, you can do a 2 psi line from the meter at 3/4" and then add a regulator near the heater, but you would need your utility to change your service to 2 psi after the service regulator and add a regulator for the house line to go from 2 psi to 7" wc.

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Gas company said they dont usually allow 'high' pressure lines, and max out at 8" for most residential.
I think I am ready to accept doing the full line properly (Id do the labor guided by a pro friend whos simply too busy to do it),
main issue now would be 1.5" vs 2" pipe. I will layout a path id trench, count elbows, couplers.
side note, I looked online and the home-flex 2" risers seem out of stock everywhere.
 
jedigrover said:
Whoa. That looks like all schedule 40 PVC (even the yellow pipe). I wasn't aware anyone ever did PVC gas piping.
PE is tubing, not rigid pipe from everything I've ever witnessed. And everything I've ever seen uses compression fittings, not glued on.

That is weird.

I don't think I'd trust it. It's certainly not industry standard by any means here in Texas. I don't know about local codes where you are.
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heres the piece I cut off of the 'brighter' yellow. its def rigid.
7.jpg
 
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No markings on that brighter pipe?

I thought it might be the same stuff, just with the labeled side turned down (which would be a no-no with our inspectors) and the faded pipe having been left exposed to sunlight longer before burial. But maybe a different mfg / batch done at a later date by a homeowner (would explain the irrigation elbow).
 
I say go overkill and do a 2" line. We did 150ft of 2" gas line from the meter to the pool equipment BUT, we knew we were going to add a tap for the BBQ and gas pit. Since you will be doing all the expensive hard labor yourself, the difference in price between 2" and 1-1/2" PE is minimal.
 
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jedigrover said:
No markings on that brighter pipe?

I thought it might be the same stuff, just with the labeled side turned down (which would be a no-no with our inspectors) and the faded pipe having been left exposed to sunlight longer before burial. But maybe a different mfg / batch done at a later date by a homeowner (would explain the irrigation elbow).
Click to expand...
No markings on the 2" piece I cut off
 
I agree with @JoyfulNoise -- if you are already digging the trench, cutting concrete, and the gas company is telling you they don't allow high-pressure, then do 2". You then have some extra capacity for a NG grill or fire pit or something.

Fortunately, I was allowed to go to 2psi, with a capable meter, and separate regulators for house, pool heater, and grill.
 
Just measured my optimal path, relative to least amount of concrete, it is 146 feet (~150).
minimum of 2 elbow and 2 inline couplers to risers.
at meter and heater probably another 2-4 elbows at least.
factoring in fittings, I'm nearing the 200 foot mark, this would lead me to a 2" pipe as the easy choice.

Next steps.
A. Is there still any logical reason to tap into the old pipe, replacing the elbow and running the 30', this is the quickest/easiest/cheapest but might all be for naught
B. new 150 foot pipe (they sell in 100 or 250 only!) and just put in the time/money to do it right and be assured it will be good
C. if yes to B, 1.5" or 2" (main issue now I have trouble finding 2" risers, but hopefully they'd come back in stock soon.
 
A. probably depends on your municipality. Do they allow the old PVC to remain in place, or does touching it mean it then has to be brought up to current code? I know in most places, at least with electrical work, if you touch it then it must be brought up to current code.
 
Asherk74 said:
Next steps.
A. Is there still any logical reason to tap into the old pipe, replacing the elbow and running the 30', this is the quickest/easiest/cheapest but might all be for naught
B. new 150 foot pipe (they sell in 100 or 250 only!) and just put in the time/money to do it right and be assured it will be good
C. if yes to B, 1.5" or 2" (main issue now I have trouble finding 2" risers, but hopefully they'd come back in stock soon.
Click to expand...
A is the cheapest and easiest and it would "probably" work.

However, it's unlikely that you could get it permitted and inspected.

The current line seems patched together and of questionable quality.

Overall, I would recommend a whole new line done completely to code.
 
JamesW said:
You forgot the 10 million btu/hr steel forge you run as you practice to be on the TV show Forged in Fire.
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I was told by the HOA that the 1.2M BTU/hr pizza oven would not be allowed unless I promised free delivery to each lot owner … I think I can get around their code by switching to wood fired and limiting toppings to anchovies and broccoli only … my lawyer is reviewing the governing documents ….
 
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JamesW said:
A is the cheapest and easiest and it would "probably" work.

However, it's unlikely that you could get it permitted and inspected.

The current line seems patched together and of questionable quality.

Overall, I would recommend a whole new line done completely to code.
Click to expand...
This could potentially eliminate option A.
Can the standard compression fittings sold at HD be used with PVC, or are they only meant for Poly
1654204974046.png
 

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