Heater Pipe COLLAPSED!

[JamesW]

Pump, filter and heater are about 4' above the pool level

4 feet up can create enough suction to collapse the pipes if they are hot and only if they are hot.

Without heat, there's no way that the pipes can collapse like that.

 

[ajw22]

You are asking all of us to play a guessing game with you.

Regardless of what caused the pipes to collapse you should replace all the flex PVC with rigid schedule 40 pipe and fittings. While you are upgrading your plumbing you should replace the ball valves with diverter valves.

It is difficult fully understanding your pipe and valve setup. Why does it look like you have two returns going into the ground from two different pipes?

Are your underground pipes flex PVC or rigid schedule 40? As someone said you may have a collapsed underground pipe. If the flex PVC pipes above ground collapsed and you have flex PVC below ground it may have also collapsed.

A clue is that all of the collapsed pipes are after the heater. If nothing restricted between the heater output and your pool returns there should have been no way for a vacuum to exist to collapse the pipe. So I think more investigation needs to be around your pool returns.

 

[adel_ashri]

Your technician is making up nonsense.

Update, I forgot to mention when I say the collapsed pipes in the morning, I opened the air relief valve of filter. I went to the heater to figure what to do. And for my surprise, all new pipes returned back to it's shape. The clue became more mysterious. The pump was of at 6am. I checked saw the pipes at 7.30am. I saw the pipes fixed at 2pm. I have to re-think again. p.s., I turned the gas & power off.

 

[ajw22]

I think the kinks in your flex PVC closed the pipes and did not let pressure in the pipes release until you opened the filter air relief valve.

The red circle is clearly kinked closed and the blue circle has a pipe with another pipe pressing it into the pad and kinking it.

Again, hard PVC is the fix .

 

[adel_ashri]

You are asking all of us to play a guessing game with you.

Regardless of what caused the pipes to collapse you should replace all the flex PVC with rigid schedule 40 pipe and fittings. While you are upgrading your plumbing you should replace the ball valves with diverter valves.

It is difficult fully understanding your pipe and valve setup. Why does it look like you have two returns going into the ground from two different pipes?

Are your underground pipes flex PVC or rigid schedule 40? As someone said you may have a collapsed underground pipe. If the flex PVC pipes above ground collapsed and you have flex PVC below ground it may have also collapsed.

A clue is that all of the collapsed pipes are after the heater. If nothing restricted between the heater output and your pool returns there should have been no way for a vacuum to exist to collapse the pipe. So I think more investigation needs to be around your pool returns.

Thank you. I'm planning to change the pipes to rigid pipes
The return pipes going under ground come from one outlet off the heater. One of them to pool body at deep end and the other going to steps at shallow end. I don't know why, but this is how it is.
I'm not sure about the underground pipes, but it seems flexible (black pipe, but more rigid than the white ones. They appear partially in the photos.
The flow of water was very good and strong without bubbles when the pump was running yesterday and that's why I don't know how vacuum happened as you said. I will try tomorrow to check the path of return pipes using a shop vac.
Update, the new flex hoses returned to it's shape. May be because I opened in the morning the relief valve of the filter. This made the clue more mysterious for me.
Thanks again for your input.

 

[adel_ashri]

I think the kinks in your flex PVC closed the pipes and did not let pressure in the pipes release until you opened the filter air relief valve.

The red circle is clearly kinked closed and the blue circle has a pipe with another pipe pressing it into the pad and kinking it.

Again, hard PVC is the fix .

Thank you for your reply. The pipe was straight curved not as it shown now at red circle. This after the collapse. At the blue circle I put an L to fix the first damage and it was higher not as low as the current position.
I will change the pipes into rigid pipes as a trial.
Thanks again

 

[JamesW]

Use a timer with a fireman switch.

The fireman switch cuts the heater off a few minutes before the pump turns off.

Adding a flow switch also help protect from problems.

Most likely, the pressure switch in your heater was adjusted to make it work with your system which does not work properly when you are at a 4 foot elevation above the pool water.

The pressure switch is probably out of adjustment.

Raypak Flow Switch Kit - 007142F - INYOPools.com

Flow Switch Kit - 007142F

www.inyopools.com

Adjustment of Water Pressure Switch

If the heater is installed in line with a two speed pump, the pressure switch MUST be adjusted to prevent the heater from firing on low-speed or low-flow pump operation.

The pressure switch is preset at the factory for normal pool installations.

Do not adjust it unless the heater's water connections are more than three feet above or below the pool surface.

If they are not in this range, the pressure switch must be adjusted.

This can be done in the field if the water connections are no more than six feet above the pool surface or no more than ten feet below it.

 

[adel_ashri]

Use a timer with a fireman switch.

The fireman switch cuts the heater off a few minutes before the pump turns off.

Adding a flow switch also help protect from problems.

Most likely, the pressure switch in your heater was adjusted to make it work with your system which does not work properly when you are at a 4 foot elevation above the pool water.

The pressure switch is probably out of adjustment.

Thank you. This is beyond my expertise. I will forward that to the electrician to do so. I really appreciate your help

 

[Bill1974]

Other than CPVC, most polymer pipe used to plumb pools isn't going to do well once it's above ~120°F. Most pipe is only rated for pressure not vacuum. It's pretty easy to collapse all of these pipes if they are warm and and have any load on them trying to bend them.

There is a pretty good chance that your pipe have been collapsing for some time when the heater was working and finally someone noticed it when the heater stopped working. Things to look at, do you have enough flow though the heater? Generally I think the max output temperature from a pool heater is ~110° to ~115°F and it would only happen when the pool water is at ~104°F. Generally the temperature rise from inlet to outlet is ~5°F if the flow is sufficient though the heater. Water at 140°F only takes a couple of seconds to burn skin.

 

[adel_ashri]

Other than CPVC, most polymer pipe used to plumb pools isn't going to do well once it's above ~120°F. Most pipe is only rated for pressure not vacuum. It's pretty easy to collapse all of these pipes if they are warm and and have any load on them trying to bend them.

There is a pretty good chance that your pipe have been collapsing for some time when the heater was working and finally someone noticed it when the heater stopped working. Things to look at, do you have enough flow though the heater? Generally I think the max output temperature from a pool heater is ~110° to ~115°F and it would only happen when the pool water is at ~104°F. Generally the temperature rise from inlet to outlet is ~5°F if the flow is sufficient though the heater. Water at 140°F only takes a couple of seconds to burn skin.

Thank you for your reply. Actually this what all said. So I assume the heater run by itself, although it wasn't able to run manually. I turned the gas valve off and I'm replacing the collapsed pipe and will see.

 

[adel_ashri]

Hello admin. You may close this thread now. I would like to thank you and everyone replied to me for help.