Help with return positioning

[pool512]

I've been reading everything I can on how to position my returns and have tried both hydrostream and hydrojet eyeball covers, but no matter how I orient them I watch debris float right by my skimmers. Some debris finds its way into to the skimmers, but most just floats by repeatedly, and I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I've attached a sketch showing location of the two skimmers and four returns. The return labeled 3 is currently oriented toward the bench under the waterfall, which otherwise becomes a dead area, and the other 3 returns are currently angled counterclockwise and downward about 45 degrees.

Any suggestions on how to set them up to skim better would be greatly appreciated... I'm going crazy watching the debris just float on by. Also worth noting, I've experimented with slower and faster speeds (between 1800-3450RPM) to see if that might help, but I had the same issues.

Thanks!

 

[HermanTX]

Wind has a lot to do with skimmer performance so it may not be just how you point the returns. The good thing is that you have 2 skimmers which helps tremendously.
Have you tried to point return 5 & 6 to skimmer #2 and returns 3 & 4 to skimmer #1. This would be a clockwise system.
Having that freeform pool with that concave area where the waterfall is may be more difficult but if you run the waterfall every so often that would push the debris out to the middle.

The alternative is a clockwise system with 3 & 4 pointed to Skimmer 2 and 5 & 6 pointed to Skimmer #1

 

[pool512]

Thanks for the suggestions! A couple follow-up questions...
1. Any opinion on the eyeball vs slotted return fittings?
2. Any recommendation on how to angle the fittings? I've seen recommendations of aiming to disrupt surface, and also recommendations to angle at 45 degrees toward bottom to mix cool and warm water and "stir up bottom."

Thanks again!

 

[wireform]

Pool,
What has been said above. Also the water height at the skimmer mouth makes a big difference, too low or too high of a water line can have an adverse effect on how the pool skims. Make sure you have a well working weir door so as the water comes over, it sort of drops a bit into the basket causing a whirling effect which makes the surface dirt get pulled in.

 

[pool512]

Thanks. I just replaced one of the doors, so they both operate as you describe (whirling). It just doesn't seem like there is enough pull from the skimmer, so the debris floats by.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for the suggestions! A couple follow-up questions...
1. Any opinion on the eyeball vs slotted return fittings?
2. Any recommendation on how to angle the fittings? I've seen recommendations of aiming to disrupt surface, and also recommendations to angle at 45 degrees toward bottom to mix cool and warm water and "stir up bottom."

Thanks again!

You have a VS pump, have you tried it at different speeds to determine if any difference in skimmer performance.
Be careful not to point return nozzle that it breaks the surface and causes a lot of aeration as that could increase your pH unnecessary.
I don’t have experience with slotted vs eyeball fittings. I just have the eyeball type and face them basically straight out or slightly down. I also have a main bottom drain so I get good mixing across the deep end. I also have my skimmer/main drain valve set at 80% skimmer and 20% main drain opening.

 

[Winger 03]

I think you need to pick a direction CW or CCW; that way you will take advantage of the "whirlpool" and keep things moving. As noted above, wind it a factor - does the wind tend to blow in a particular direction, and if so, is it toward one of the skimmers?

 

[pool512]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have them all going counterclockwise now, not disturbing the surface, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. There isn't much wind, and not an obvious prevailing wind. I've also been experimenting with speed, though nothing has been obvious.

One thing mentioned has me curious... "I also have my skimmer/main drain valve set at 80% skimmer and 20% main drain opening." How do you adjust this? I have 3 pipes coming in to the pool pump (plus 2 more for the waterfall), and 2 have shutoffs on them. I assumed there was one for each skimmer, so I could shut down one to increase power on the other for vacuuming, etc.

Thanks!

 

[wireform]

The two blue valves are your skimmers. To left is the black valve to control the main drain I think. If you look at the valve handle it'll show opposite the handle end the word "OFF". If the handle faces the skimmer valves parallel to the white pvc pipe you would be essentially shutting off the main drain and only feeding the pump from the skimmers. If you move the handle either way so that the word OFF isn't perfectly opposite the main drain pipe and as long as the valve isn't 90° to the pvc pipe you would be somewhere between closed and full open. The closer to the off position will be limiting water coming from the MD (main drain). Basically anywhere the OFF faces is a closed position. The picture shows it in full open to the MD.

 

[Chad1979]

So if his MD valve is wide open currently, would you suggest he tries to close it most of the way? In my mind that would increase the amount of water the skimmers pull so in essence they would have better pull to draw debris into them, as long as water level in skimmer mouths are near proper position. Correct?

 

[wireform]

So if his MD valve is wide open currently, would you suggest he tries to close it most of the way? In my mind that would increase the amount of water the skimmers pull so in essence they would have better pull to draw debris into them, as long as water level in skimmer mouths are near proper position. Correct?

Yes, that's what is refered to by when they say 20% which is not known perfectly but basically some slight angle off from fully closed.

 

[HermanTX]

"I also have my skimmer/main drain valve set at 80% skimmer and 20% main drain opening." How do you adjust this? I have 3 pipes coming in to the pool pump (plus 2 more for the waterfall), and 2 have shutoffs on them. I assumed there was one for each skimmer, so I could shut down one to increase power on the other for vacuuming, etc

@wireform provided you all the information to adjust between your MD and the Skimmers. The only thing I would add is to mark your pipes. Determine which line is your Shallow Skimmer and the other the Deep Skimmer (or call them East or West or whatever makes it easy for you refer to each). You can determine that by having the black valve set to OFF facing the main drain. So all your suction is from the skimmers. Then turn 1 blue valve off and determine which skimmer that is. Then reopen it and then turn the other off just to confirm the other skimmer is also functioning. Now you turn both full open or you may elect to have 1 partially open.
Now turn the black Jandy valve slightly to open the main drain but only go incremental. Look at your skimmers and their flow. If you are happy with whatever setting you pick then monitor for a couple of days to determine if that works better for your skimming.

Note: It is always best to leave some suction from the main drain (other then for the test I described above). This ensures that your pump can always draw water such as for priming, etc. That hydrostatic head of your water depth helps pushes water to the pump.

One other item - those blue handle valves are not repairable. So I would be cautious as to how you set them and leave them for any length of time. It is good to open and close them every so often just to keep them operational (sometimes they can get stuck). If they ever leak then you need to cut them out of the pipe work. The black Jandy valve is repairable. You just need to remove the screws and the cover to access the valve mechanism. So that is why they can be turned incrementally because one, they are more durable and two, they can be repaired without much hassle.

Let us know how that works out.

 

[pool512]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I think I have all the plumbing figured out, and have been able to adjust to put more suction to one skimmer, which is working better now. I found a basket full of leaves, bugs, and a good-sized live snake after a day with these adjustments. I'm going to be replacing my non-functional heater soon, and am thinking about having the plumbing cleaned up at the same time and swapping the blue ball valves for Jandy valves to make them repairable in the future.