What is happening here? Salt rise, more

[Todrick]

anyone want to take a gander at my logs and help me understand this?

had my salt at 3400, TFP mentions it will go down.... it's rising.... 3600
stupid swg reads it as 4100... but the Amps are staying between 6.8 and 7.2 so i guess 3600 is OK?

But I want to know why it's going up... so I can plan ahead in the future....

Could it be my fill water (it's on an auto fill)? Thinking it may be on our water softener and that's where the salt is coming from. Is that a common issue?

Too hot to go back out and test that water right now... maybe once the sun gets low.

 

[wireform]

Todrick,
Give us some background info on the salt issue. If you added some salt it may not be mixed in completely. That would be the only way it can go higher. Don't rely on the T-15 for an accurate salinity reading. Get your k1766 and check it.

 

[Oly]

You can test the fill water with your K-1766.

 

[Todrick]

Todrick,
Give us some background info on the salt issue. If you added some salt it may not be mixed in completely. That would be the only way it can go higher. Don't rely on the T-15 for an accurate salinity reading. Get your k1766 and check it.

this is kind of why i said check my logs.... i have a K-1766 and have used it several times, that's how i know my SWG is wrong and my salt is rising.

but here's the synopsis....

• salt was added 3/26 in conversion to SWG
• Pool service added 120 lbs without testing before or after.... and it didn't seem like enough, eithe rby math or by CL being produced....
• got my K-1766... tested at 2900
• FINALLY got them to test it on April 30th, "2600" is what he got so he added 1 more 40lbs bag.... this was while i was not present.
• I tested later that day 3300.... then again that evening 3200
• May 4th, 3400
• today 3600

So... no salt since 4/30. but some "odd" background cause of a really terrible pool guy

--

... OK I just tested my fill water.

1000ppm

Would that raise my salt? Kind of seems like it would.

Also... seems to confirm my suspicion that it's on the water softener:

0 FC, 0 CC, PH 8.2?(off the chart pink, estimate), 0CH... in addition to the previously mentioned 1000ppm slat.

 

[Todrick]

You can test the fill water with your K-1766.

yes and i finally did... was just too hot to go back out, so posted hoping for some insight anyway...

0 FC, 0 CC, PH 8.2?(off the chart pink, estimate), 0 CH, 1000 ppm salt.

 

[Oly]

How about TA?

 

[Todrick]

i'll do TA again tomorrow.... I remembered all of them except that... i think it was 100 but i could be wrong.

Only one i didn't test was CYA, cause i think it's safe to assume thats 0

 

[BenB]

1000ppm salt in your fill water will raise your salt, but unless you've a lot of evaporation I wouldn't think so measurably over just 2 weeks.

3200-3600 is just +/- 1 drop from 3400. That's within normal testing accuracy I believe.

40lbs in your 9600 pool will add 500ppm. So that last bag behaved like it should going from somewhere between you and your pool guy readings to your new range now.

All this to say I think it's too soon to say for sure that it's "going up". You might just have variation between tests.

Have you tried doing the test with a double sized sample? That will calculate 100ppm per drop instead of 200ppm. Then I'd give it some time and see what happens.

At the end of the day if the SWG is happy then that's all that matters, but knowing what the level really is may be helpful for troubleshooting down the road, and there's plenty of time to figure that out.

 

[Todrick]

1000ppm salt in your fill water will raise your salt, but unless you've a lot of evaporation I wouldn't think so measurably over just 2 weeks.

3200-3600 is just +/- 1 drop from 3400. That's within normal testing accuracy I believe.

40lbs in your 9600 pool will add 500ppm. So that last bag behaved like it should going from somewhere between you and your pool guy readings to your new range now.

All this to say I think it's too soon to say for sure that it's "going up". You might just have variation between tests.

Have you tried doing the test with a double sized sample? That will calculate 100ppm per drop instead of 200ppm. Then I'd give it some time and see what happens.

At the end of the day if the SWG is happy then that's all that matters, but knowing what the level really is may be helpful for troubleshooting down the road, and there's plenty of time to figure that out.

Temps have been upper 90s low 100s the last 2 weeks.... my pool water with the bubble cover on was hitting 96 (without any heater).... i removed the cover about 5 days ago and the temp has come down (87 today), but i suspect im getting a lot more evaporation as well. I'm definitely burning off more CL

Good call on the double sample size... I'll do that test next as I can tell that sometimes the test lands in a middle area...

To clarify, it's my understanding that 8 amps is the danger area... with my SWG humming along in the 6.8 - 7.4 range i'm good, even if the salt is higher than "recommended"

 

[BenB]

Ok that is hot and yes to bring the temp down like you did would have evaporated a fair amount of water. Do you have an autofill or do you have to top it off manually?

Your pool reminds me of @mknauss - he's in NV but has a shallow / lower gallon pool and also has to carefully watch evaporation.

 

[Todrick]

Ok that is hot and yes to bring the temp down like you did would have evaporated a fair amount of water. Do you have an autofill or do you have to top it off manually?

Your pool reminds me of @mknauss - he's in NV but has a shallow / lower gallon pool and also has to carefully watch evaporation.

it's an auto fill... which is great convenience-wise.... but if, as it seems to be, it's off the water softener, that's going to be interesting chemical-wise.

Our water here is so hard though, that it's a catch 22.... my CH is not going to skyrocket like it would without the softener, but Salt might.

 

[mknauss]

my CH is not going to skyrocket like it would without the softener, but Salt might.

Water softener does not add salt to the water. It scrubs the calcium from the water. The TA will still be added and will rise with additions due to evaporation.

 

[Todrick]

Water softener does not add salt to the water. It scrubs the calcium from the water. The TA will still be added and will rise with additions due to evaporation.

ok... so just the normal water here being 1000ppm makes sense?

I did just check the supply water TA, it's 90

 

[mknauss]

Your fill water salt level is not 1000ppm. Nor is that level coming out of the water softener.

How did you test that level of salt?

 

[Todrick]

Your fill water salt level is not 1000ppm. Nor is that level coming out of the water softener.

How did you test that level of salt?

with my K-1766

10ml sample

1 drop R-0630
per drop R-0718.... 5 drops, turned from white to a milky salmon.
( perhaps i film it, would that help?)

Not only that, but thinking back it seems it may have been higher on initial fill...

when converting from CL to SWG... Pool guy put in three 40lb bags of salt
when measured a month later it was 2900ppm
1 more bag, brought it to 3400 (so 1 bag is 500ppm, in my 9600g pool)
4x500=2000... so it appears the fill water was originally 1400ppm... before adding ANY salt.


I did retest my pool today with double the water sample(as suggested in this thread to get a 100ppm accuracy)... and got 3400 again... so not sure what to think.

 

[Todrick]

How about TA?

not sure if you saw my other mention of it... but I measured the TA of my fill water today, it is 90

 

[mknauss]

All forms of chlorine, other than Cal Hypo, add salt.

The EPA would designate your tap water as non-potable with that level of salt. So something is not correct.

 

[Todrick]

All forms of chlorine, other than Cal Hypo, add salt.

The EPA would designate your tap water as non-potable with that level of salt. So something is not correct.

Well, pool startup was chlorine, those stupid tabs... but we switched to SWG a month later.
I'll test the fill water again tomorrow...

but does anything about this, besides the salt, seem abnormal?... or indicate softener or not. (Honestly don't know if that particular water line is on the loop or not. but 0 CH certainly seems to indicate it is, no?):

0 FC
0 CC
8.2 PH (guess, based on off the chart shade of pink/purple)
90 TA
0 CH
0 CYA
1000 Salt

also, maybe OT, on this forum, but seems relevant....
if the softener isn't adding salt to the water... where does the 40lbs of salt i add to the softener every month go? I mean, I don't expect it all to end up in the water, but after the resin gets washed in the brine... is there not salt left in the resin tank that is then part of the water supply?

 

[wireform]

The water softener uses cation resin which its purpose is to hold on to the minerals which we call hard water as the hard water passes through it. Then the water is called soft as the minerals were stripped off and remain attached to the resin. So after X amount of water passing through the resin it can no longer remove minerals and needs to be cleaned. That's where the salt comes in to play. Salt in the holding tank creates salt brine which now in the regenerating process cleans the resin. Then the salt gets rinsed out well along with what was removed from the resin and remaining is a slight trace of salt for the first gallon or so. So if you have softened water from the water softener piped to the pool it is NOT addinng salt.

 

[Todrick]

The water softener uses cation resin which its purpose is to hold on to the minerals which we call hard water as the hard water passes through it. Then the water is called soft as the minerals were stripped off and remain attached to the resin. So after X amount of water passing through the resin it can no longer remove minerals and needs to be cleaned. That's where the salt comes in to play. Salt in the holding tank creates salt brine which now in the regenerating process cleans the resin. Then the salt gets rinsed out well along with what was removed from the resin and remaining is a slight trace of salt for the first gallon or so. So if you have softened water from the water softener piped to the pool it is NOT addinng salt.

ok good to know.

I mean I knew most of that, but didn't realize the salt was completely rinsed away.