General "condition check" / What to expect

[stevenfex]

We'll be moving soon and this will be our first pool. I was able to stop by the house to get some pictures and video of the existing equipment.

Tried my best to make out the parts and place in my signature. I have not yet tested but I do have my TF-100 kit.

Pump is running loud and has an obvious leak.

There's also a pretty rusted pipe you can see running under the pump.

Basically just trying to get a feel for what will likely need to be replaced, whether they're DIY jobs or not, any other recommendations, or really any other comments from pool vets.

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Everything is old. Best thing you have is the filter. Plan to redo pump, heater and SWG, and cleanup plumbing soon. I think they are all running on borrowed time.

 

[stevenfex]

Everything is old. Best thing you have is the filter. Plan to redo pump, heater and SWG, and cleanup plumbing soon. I think they are all running on borrowed time.

That's what I kind of figured.

I didn't even realize there was an SWG there, lol. Is that the elevated semi-clear plastic thing?

And then... what's the uhh, brown pit for?

To replace everything you mentioned what would you expect a pool contractor to charge?

 

[ajw22]

That's what I kind of figured.

I didn't even realize there was an SWG there, lol. Is that the elevated semi-clear plastic thing?

Yup.

And then... what's the uhh, brown pit for?

I figured some drainage or slop basin.

To replace everything you mentioned what would you expect a pool contractor to charge?

• VS pump $1500 - $2000
• Heater $4,000 - $5,000
• SWG - $1,500 - $2,000

Cut all those in half if you DIY.

 

[stevenfex]

Thanks for the response. I'm thinking I'll wait to replace the heater and see how it works out with the solar cover it comes with. So just replacing with a variable speed pump and a new SWCG.

Based on the existing pentair DE filter, would you lean toward a Pentair VS pump and swcg like the IC40? I know I will eventually want to get a robotic cleaner - not sure if that entails any specific pump feature.

I've read the "picking a PB" thread/article but is there any other resource available here for finding local contractors? I would love to get some referrals to Orange County, CA contractors to get some quotes.

I imagine I may run into the problem of this being "too small a job" for many legit contractors

 

[DeanP66]

A Pentair VS pump would be great, but unless you have automation, which it doesn't look like you do, you may want to consider a different SWG. I believe the IC40 without automation only lets you choose outputs at 20% intervals. You may want to consider a Circupool RJ30+ or even a RJ45+ for only $100 more. They come with a nice control unit that let's you adjust the output in 5% increments so you have a lot more control in fine tuning how much chlorine you want produced. The cell is clear so you can see the chlorine being produced when it's generating and also see if there's any calcium buildup on the plates.

I agree with you, start with the pump and then maybe the SWG. Both are very easy to wire if you have any DIY experience. The heater I would definitely wait on and see what you have once you fire everything up. Like you said, you may not even need it once you put your solar cover. I do the same thing here in San Jose and in the heat of summer, my pool temps get into the high 80s and low 90s which is plenty warm.

The beauty about the robots is that they run independently from the pool equipment. You just need an AC outlet to plug in the control unit. No additional booster pumps to install, no need to have your pool equipment running or anything. You just throw it in the pool, plug it in and turn it on and come back in two hours and it's done.

 

[stevenfex]

A Pentair VS pump would be great, but unless you have automation, which it doesn't look like you do, you may want to consider a different SWG. I believe the IC40 without automation only lets you choose outputs at 20% intervals. You may want to consider a Circupool RJ30+ or even a RJ45+ for only $100 more. They come with a nice control unit that let's you adjust the output in 5% increments so you have a lot more control in fine tuning how much chlorine you want produced. The cell is clear so you can see the chlorine being produced when it's generating and also see if there's any calcium buildup on the plates.

I agree with you, start with the pump and then maybe the SWG. Both are very easy to wire if you have any DIY experience. The heater I would definitely wait on and see what you have once you fire everything up. Like you said, you may not even need it once you put your solar cover. I do the same thing here in San Jose and in the heat of summer, my pool temps get into the high 80s and low 90s which is plenty warm.

The beauty about the robots is that they run independently from the pool equipment. You just need an AC outlet to plug in the control unit. No additional booster pumps to install, no need to have your pool equipment running or anything. You just throw it in the pool, plug it in and turn it on and come back in two hours and it's done.

Would there be any reason to go w/ Circupool VS pump to match or does that really only apply if planning to automate later? It looks like the pentair superflo VS would be good for me, but Circupool has their own VS pump too.

Replacing the pump does not seem too difficult - I've never worked w/ PVC but it doesn't seem tough at all so I will likely attempt that install myself.

As far as the SWG install, can all SWGs be installed either horizontally or vertically? It looks like most run "inline" vs. my existing that comes in with a 90 degree turn and outputs the side. I'm wondering if I would be able to install vertically at the top of that vertical pipe and then repipe beyond the new SWG.

One more thing, when I ordered my TF-100 I didn't even know I had a SWG, so I'm assuming I should pick up the K-1766 kit to test for salts? Or are there strips that are sufficient for this?

Again thanks immensely for helping me out. Feeling quite a bit more confident about all this even though it's two weeks plus before we actually move in.

 

[DeanP66]

Definitely get the K1766 test kit. It will give you reliable and repeatable results. I don't know a lot about the Circupool VS pumps. Pentair is known for their pumps so I'd probably stick with them if it were me. I don't even know if Circupool offers automation to tell you the truth.

Working with pvc is pretty straight forward. Just make sure you make square cuts so the pipe goes into the fitting evenly. That will reduce your chances of a failed glue joint. Make sure you use primer plus glue. The primer softens and cleans the pipe so the glue will do its job better. When you glue two joints together, push the fitting and the pipe together and twist the pipe a 1/4 turn. It makes for a better seal.

Most SWG's can be installed either way, but you have to be careful with the flow switch. It's best to have it on a horizontal pipe so it doesn't stay open because of gravity. Circupool also makes a model similar to yours that installs on top of two legs. Check out their SJ models. They are the least expensive of all their models and use a different control unit, with less frills like no water temp, no salinity reading, no amps output, and so forth. It's still a good unit and may work better for you for your install. Also keep in mind that Circupool is the only manufacturer that honors the full warranty on DIY installs. Most others do not.

 

[stevenfex]

I ordered the K1766.

I'm curious about the Circupool pumps because of the package deals I see on their website. 1.5hp VS pump + Edge 40 = $1650 or $1884 with the RJ 45. I'd probably just bump up to the 2.0hp pump (up to 35k gallon pool per their website) for $150 more but that's still ~$2k for the equipment I need. The pumps have a 3year warranty as well. Anyway I wouldn't pull the trigger until doing some more reading/research on their pumps. At this point I am just wanting to get a simple system up and running and not too concerned with automation.

Also I probably shouldn't be comparing to the Intelliflo. The Superflo is probably more comparable but afaik only comes in 1.5hp.

Re: the flow switch, could the flow switch be on the horizontal at the top where my current SWG is? New SWG could go before the switch which I believe is fine.

One other thing, which would probably be a bit down the road, but would you recommend installing a bypass on the heater? Seems fairly straightforward to do with just three 2-way valves.

 

[DeanP66]

Wow, those are some great deals on those combos. I got my RJ45+ last year from Discount Salt Pool, which I believe is Circupool and have been very happy with it. With your pool only being 15k gallons, you might be fine with the 1.5hp pump. It should be plenty for you unless you have a bunch of water features or other ancillary devices. I have a 1.5hp Hayward VSP on my 20k pool and it works great. I usually run it at 1200rpm 24/7, which is more than enough to close the flow switch on the SWG. The prices on SWGs have skyrocketed lately. My RJ45+ that I bought in March 2020 at Discount Salt Pool for $970 was $1299 until a couple days ago. It is now $1499. Crazy!!

If you do go for the combo, make sure you get the unions that are an add on for around $16. It makes servicing the equipment much easier so you don't have to cut out pvc and re-glue afterwards. I don't see why you can't put the flow switch on that cross piece. Can't quite tell from the pics, but it looks like the pipe coming out of the filter and heading to the SWG is 1.5". I would just redo that to 2" if you could so you don't have to glue in any of the reducers that come with the RJ45+. You can use them, but why restrict the flow if you don't have to? You are correct in that you can put the flow switch before or after the cell with the RJ 45+. Mine is plumbed after the cell. Just make sure you leave enough straight pipe before and after the flow switch. If you put the flow switch after the cell, you can count the cell as part of the straight pipe.

A heater bypass is a good idea, and while you're in there re-piping the SWG, would be fairly simple to do. It will let you isolate the heater if you have any problems or if you need to get it serviced without shutting down your pool equipment completely. I had an issue about 10 years ago when my pool guy (I used to have one, but no longer) told me that the water was not flowing through the system. It turns out that my heater was so old and corroded that it wasn't allowing any flow through the system. I had to cut it out of the system to get the water flowing properly again. I had old copper piping and went with some compression pvc fittings to get the bypass to work. I broke down the heater and had it picked up for scrap metal and haven't had a heater since. If I had a bypass, I could have just flipped the valves and taken my time with the rest of it. Just make sure you get the Jandy never lube valves. They are the best. NO BALL VALVES. They get hard to turn in only a couple of years and then you're screwed.

 

[stevenfex]

I think you're right about the 1.5in line coming out of the filter. I definitely need to head back there and get better pics now that I have more info.

If there's a 90 between SWG and flow switch I can't count the SWG right? I figured there's enough room up there to 90 and then get 12in straight.

Thanks for the tip on the valves too. I didn't know typical valves had issues like that.

 

[stevenfex]

Just discussed with our agent who ordered the home warranty recently, but she included the pool/spa equipment option shown below.

It appears to cover the equipment I need and includes a limit of $1500 for the salt water control unit / cell / flow sensor.

I may be in luck? I have no idea how this will work out but I am wondering if I can work with the warranty company and pick the elements I want. I am leaning toward the Edge 40 SWG both for initial cost and cost to replace the cell.

 

[DeanP66]

You are correct, you can't the SWG if there's a 90 in between it and the flow switch, but 12" should be plenty. Jandy valves are a bit more, but they last forever and are serviceable if you ever need to change the o-rings in case of a leak.

 

[stevenfex]

You are correct, you can't the SWG if there's a 90 in between it and the flow switch, but 12" should be plenty. Jandy valves are a bit more, but they last forever and are serviceable if you ever need to change the o-rings in case of a leak.

Yeah there should be plenty of room to get the 12".

I have also read go with the larger 2/2.5" Jandy, and initially plumb with 2" PVC slipped into the ports. Later, if I needed to adjust, saw off that old 2" pipe flush with the port and use a 2.5" to 2" coupler and you can then connect more 2" pipe. If I am understanding correctly, there would be no way to reuse a 3rd time right? Not that I should ever need that, just wanting to make sure I understand.

 

[DeanP66]

There is a tool you can buy that goes on the end of a drill that can ream out the glued pipe inside of a fitting, but I have never used one. I would just feel more confident in getting a new one in that situation. The tool is about $20.

I agree with your assessment about the 2/2.5" Jandy valves. I like to put the pipe inside the fitting, but you're right, you can replumb it in the future with a 2.5" coupler over the end of the valve. You would need the ream tool to reuse the valve more than twice. I like to keep my valves spaced away from any fittings enough that I can at least make a cut in the pipe in between if I have to replumb anything. Leaving at least 2 to 3 inches allows you to cut the pipe and insert a new coupling on the end of the cut and allow the existing cut pipe to fully seat inside the new coupling with no gluing issues. Likewise, I usually won't put a 90 or even a straight coupler directly flush with a union (pump or filter) for the same reasons. Some of those unions aren't cheap so I always like to leave myself options.

 

[ajw22]

There is a tool you can buy that goes on the end of a drill that can ream out the glued pipe inside of a fitting, but I have never used one. I would just feel more confident in getting a new one in that situation. The tool is about $20.

It is called a Hub Saver or Socket Saver...

PVC Repair - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[stevenfex]

We're quickly approaching moving day (Saturday) but I may get the keys tonight.

I believe the sellers ended their pool service because the last time we were there, Monday night, the pump was not running and the pool definitely had a murky look to it. Not terrible looking or dark green or anything, but definitely not sparkling blue.

I am going to find some liquid chlorine asap.

 

[stevenfex]

Pump is still on a timer actually. I have the first (disjointed) test results:

2021.05.29
Salt 14 drops, 2800ppm
CL 5+ dark yellow
pH 8.0
13 drops 0871 so 6.5 FC
clear after 5 drops 0003 so 0 CC


2021.06.03
CYA 60 (maybe higher, but I just kept going till that dot truly disappeared)
TA 150
CH 1000? Drops were weirdly small out of this bottle though so I think this is incorrect.
CL 5
pH 8.2

Also the valve leading to the pump is shut off to the smaller pipe coming into it. Main drain or skimmer I'm not sure. I also only have about an inch of cover above bot of skimmer so I think I should add some water

 

[DeanP66]

Is your setup still the same or did you get any new equipment plumbed in? That pipe on the right that is closed off is either the main drain, skimmer, or a spa suction line if you have one. You can always check it by feeling for suction at your skimmer, and then switch the valve and see if it changes. You'll figure out what is what.

If your water is murky you definitely need to perform a SLAM, but first drop that pH to around 7.2 with muriatic acid. With your CYA being 60ish that would put your SLAM FC level at 24ppm. If that CH is really that high though, you may be better off draining at least half your water and refilling with fresh water. That depends though on the CH of your fill water. You will lose half your CH with the drain, but add half of whatever your fill water's CH is. So if fill water is CH 200, draining half the pool will drop the CH to ~500 and the refill will add back an additional 100 (half of 200 from the fill water) for a total of ~600. Of course this all assumes that your CH test was correct in the first place.

 

[stevenfex]

Same equipment. I figured I'd test first and then see about contacting home warranty company for the leaking pump. I'll figure out which one (drain or skimmer) is off. No spa.

My previous murky comment was wrong... I think I was just worried the whole thing had been shut down and I was seeing things.

As long as the R-0012 drops for the CH test SHOULD be "normal" sized, I'm almost certain that test is wrong. When the first drop came out tiny I was already expecting the test to require more than normal. Just now I grabbed the bottle and squeezed/bent the tip around and sure enough a normal drop came out. Will retest later and expect a more accurate result.