IntelliConnect - Additional relay?

[sagosto]

I think I already know the answer to this so this is probably a hail mary. I am going to install an IntelliConnect and I think i am a relay short. The IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor will connect to the IntelliConnect via 2 RS-432 connections. I also have a Raypak heater and a spa blower that will use #1 and #2 relays. But, I also have 2 pool lights connected to a single toggle switch but no relays left. Do I have any options to also connect the lights to the IntelliConnect ecosystem?

 

[ajw22]

The heater does not use a relay. It gets constant power. Connect the heater using the 2 wire fireman’s switch to terminal B in the IntelliConnect. You also need to connect a temperature sensor to A.

That frees up a relay for your lights.

The IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor use a RS-485 connection.

How are you controlling your POOL and SPA modes?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sag,

Actually you are worse off then you think.. the IntelliChlor requires one of your two relays..

As Allen points out the heater does not need a high voltage relay.

The IntelliConnect has no ability to move automated valves.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sagosto]

The heater does not use a relay. It gets constant power. Connect the heater using the 2 wire fireman’s switch to terminal B in the IntelliConnect. You also need to connect a temperature sensor to A.

That frees up a relay for your lights.

The IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor use a RS-485 connection.

How are you controlling your POOL and SPA modes?

I was about to buy the temp sensor tonight. Is it a bad idea to buy a generic off Amazon? Not a huge savings but curiosity.

Generic: Amazon.com: Optimum Pool Technologies 520272 Water/Air/Solar Temperature Sensor Replacement for Pentair - Replaces 520272 - Includes 2" Pipe Clamp: Garden & Outdoor

Pentair: https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-5202...ocphy=9003592&hvtargid=pla-310812344520&psc=1

Are you referring to actuation? Manually. My wife hates the SPA so it is rarely used.

 

[sagosto]

Sag,

Actually you are worse off then you think.. the IntelliChlor requires one of your two relays..

As Allen points out the heater does not need a high voltage relay.

The IntelliConnect has no ability to move automated valves.

Thanks,

Jim R.

IntelliChlor needs a relay AND a connection? It can't get power from another source? I assume it wouldn't produce any chlorine if the pump turns off (e.g. no flow)?

Actually, I am back to where I was before. I still have 1 relay open and have the spa bubbler and the lights. I guess I will just pick the bubbler as we don't usually use pool at night as my kids are young.

I debated going with automation for the valves but we just don't use the spa much and this was a nice compromise.

 

[ajw22]

You pay your money and take your chances on generic parts. The quality control and longevity are not always there. If your water temperature sensor is off then your heater will not work properly through the automation.

 

[sagosto]

Any way to add in a relay or am I out of luck?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sag,

You are out of luck.. with the IntelliConnect.

And just to be clear, a salt cell needs two safety devices.. The Primary safety device is the relay that removes the power to the cell's control center whenever the pump is not supposed to be running.. The Secondary safety devise is the cell's flow switch.

Why two??? Because one of them could fail and then it would be possible for the cell to be on when the pump is not.. This could cause the cell to explode. Granted, it does not happen often, but it has happened as reported here at TFP.

You can rely on just the flow switch, but that is now how the system was designed nor what we recommend.. Will anything bad happen, maybe not.. Kind of like driving your car with the air bags turned off.. It could work for thousands of hours before the crash..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sagosto]

Sag,

You are out of luck.. with the IntelliConnect.

And just to be clear, a salt cell needs two safety devices.. The Primary safety device is the relay that removes the power to the cell's control center whenever the pump is not supposed to be running.. The Secondary safety devise is the cell's flow switch.

Why two??? Because one of them could fail and then it would be possible for the cell to be on when the pump is not.. This could cause the cell to explode. Granted, it does not happen often, but it has happened as reported here at TFP.

You can rely on just the flow switch, but that is now how the system was designed nor what we recommend.. Will anything bad happen, maybe not.. Kind of like driving your car with the air bags turned off.. It could work for thousands of hours before the crash..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for the help. To be fair, it's not a big deal. The IntelliConnect will give me control over the pump, SWG, heater, and either spa bubbler OR lights for the last relay. That's a nice upgrade.

 

[ajw22]

You can put the SWG power on a mechanical timer. Once you have your run times set you rarely change it.

You more often will want manual control of the lights or bubbler then the SWG power.

 

[sagosto]

My Jandy SWG finally kicked the bucket after 8-10 years so I decided to upgrade the pump and SWG and add IntelliConnect for some basic automation. I've listed the old and new setup below which I think is correct but I am still on the fence about not using the IntelliChlor rely #1 for safety and use it for the 2 pool and 1 spa lights. My kids are young so the majority of the pool time is during the day but it would be nice to control the lights via phone. I would have to check if the 2 pool and 1 spa lights do not exceed the relay. What can the relay support? I have 3 breakers which I believe is a direct connection to the pool pump (240V), GFCI (240V), and pool lights (120V). Can the pump and IntelliChlor share the same 240V?

Pool GFCI (#27)
20A 1 Pole Type QP
L-5538 Siemens
120/240V

Pool Lights (#29)
20A Type QPF
Siemens
120V
N0605240102

Pool (#32)
20A Type QPF
Siemens
120/240V

OLD
Kraloy Junction Box -> House Panel (240V/240V/120V breakers)
Kraloy Junction Box -> GFCI (240V) for outdoor lighting
Kraloy Junction Box -> Tork Timer (for Pump/Heater/SWG)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Pool Lights | SPA Light (120V) -> SPA Bubbler (240V)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Jandy SWG (120V/240V?)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Heater (120V/240V?)
Heater -> Heater's GFCI (240V)
Heater GFCI -> Pool Pump (240V)
Deck Box -> Pool Lights (2) | Kraloy Junction Box
Deck Box -> Spa Light | Kraloy Junction Box

NEW
Kraloy Junction Box -> House Panel (240V/240V/120V breakers)
Kraloy Junction Box -> GFCI (240V) for outdoor lighting
Kraloy Junction Box -> IntelliConnect (240V)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Pool Lights | SPA Light
IntelliConnect -> SPA Bubbler (Relay #2 25A)
Kraloy Junction Box -> IntelliChlor (240V)
IntelliChlor -> IntelliConnect (Relay #1 25A)
IntelliChlor -> IntelliConnect (RS-485)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Heater (120V/240V?)
Heater -> Water Temp Sensor (Temp Sensor Terminal A)
Heater -> IntelliConnect (Heater's 2 wire fireman’s switch to Heater Terminal B)
Heater -> Heater's GFCI (240V)
Heater's GFCI -> Pool Pump (240V)
Pool Pump -> IntelliConnect (RS-485)
Deck Box -> Pool Lights (2) | IntelliConnect
Deck Box -> Spa Light | IntelliConnect

 

[ajw22]

I would have to check if the 2 pool and 1 spa lights do not exceed the relay. What can the relay support?

20 amps on each relay. 3 lights should be less then 16 amps on a 20 amp breaker.

I have 3 breakers which I believe is a direct connection to the pool pump (240V), GFCI (240V), and pool lights (120V).

Pool GFCI (#27)
20A 1 Pole Type QP
L-5538 Siemens
120/240V

Pool Lights (#29)
20A Type QPF
Siemens
120V
N0605240102

Pool (#32)
20A Type QPF
Siemens
120/240V

Is your 120V pool light breaker GFCI?

What breaker is your spa blower on?

Can the pump and IntelliChlor share the same 240V?

yes.


NEW
Kraloy Junction Box -> House Panel (240V/240V/120V breakers)
Kraloy Junction Box -> GFCI (240V) for outdoor lighting Why is outdoor lighting 240V?
Kraloy Junction Box -> IntelliConnect (240V)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Pool Lights | SPA Light
IntelliConnect -> SPA Bubbler (Relay #2 25A) 25A??
Kraloy Junction Box -> IntelliChlor (240V)
IntelliChlor -> IntelliConnect (Relay #1 25A) 25A??
IntelliChlor -> IntelliConnect (RS-485)
Kraloy Junction Box -> Heater (120V/240V?)
Heater -> Water Temp Sensor (Temp Sensor Terminal A)
Heater -> IntelliConnect (Heater's 2 wire fireman’s switch to Heater Terminal B)
Heater -> Heater's GFCI (240V)
Heater's GFCI -> Pool Pump (240V) Why is pool pump and heater on same CB?
Pool Pump -> IntelliConnect (RS-485)
Deck Box -> Pool Lights (2) | IntelliConnect
Deck Box -> Spa Light | IntelliConnect

You have three CBs and two relays.

What will be connected to:

CB1 -?
CB2 - ?
CB3 - ?

What will be connected to:

Relay1 - ?
Relay2 - ?

 

[sagosto]

Is your 120V pool light breaker GFCI?

I am not 100% sure. The 120V breaker is labeled 'Pool lights' and the other 2 are labeled "Pool" and "Pool GFCI". I am assuming the "Pool GFCI" is the random GFCI that I am using for outdoor lighting and the "Pool" is powering the SWG/Heater/Blower/Pool (via GFCI connected off of heater). I COULD turn the breakers on outside and see what powers up.

What breaker is your spa blower on?

It must be one of the 240V because the blower is 240V. The easiest way to tell is to enable the breakers and see what has power. Shouldn't be a concern if I turn it on for a split second?

What will be connected to:

CB1 -?
CB2 - ?
CB3 - ?

What will be connected to:

Relay1 - ?
Relay2 - ?

I am going to keep the similar wiring as before which I believe is. The junction box is a cluster of wiring that doesn't make it clear what's connected to what.

CB #1 (Pool - 240V) - IntelliConnect/SWG (See below)/Heater/Pump/Blower
CB #2 (Pool GFCI - 240V) - GFCI that is an LED light and outdoor lighting
CB #3 (Pool Lights 120V) - Pool/SPA Lights

Relay #1 - SWG OR Pool Lights
Relay #2 - SPA Bubbler

Do I REALLY need to use the relay for SWG since it already uses the flow sensor as a cutoff? If so, that allows me to use the pools lights on Relay #1.

 

[ajw22]

Your pool light must be connected through a GFCI. You need to understand how that is done.

I doubt your LED light and outdoor lighting runs on 240V.

You need to use a relay or an external timer to shut power off to your SWG as was said in post #8.

You should not have pump, heater, blower, Intelliconnect, SWG all on one breaker.

You need to study your existing wiring more and understand it better before you start on this project or get help from an electrician.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Do I REALLY need to use the relay for SWG since it already uses the flow sensor as a cutoff?

See post # 8... Either you want to do it correctly or you don't.. But, no one here is going to give you the OK to do it wrong.

Jim R.

 

[sagosto]

Your pool light must be connected through a GFCI. You need to understand how that is done.

I doubt your LED light and outdoor lighting runs on 240V.

The breaker has a GFCI labeled Pool Lights.
There is another breaker labeled Pool GFCI and there's a random GFCI by the equipment that is used for outdoor lighting

I've attached pictures for reference.

You need to use a relay or an external timer to shut power off to your SWG as was said in post #8.

You should not have pump, heater, blower, Intelliconnect, SWG all on one breaker.

You need to study your existing wiring more and understand it better before you start on this project or get help from an electrician.

Pentair technical support said the relay is optional? Also, I've read other installs (IntelliConnect Review) that are not using the rely.

To be honest, I am not 100% sure how it is wired unless I go through that Junction Box but not exactly sure how to identify which goes to which breaker at the panel.

My thought process is that I am essentially swapping out 240V pump for 240V pump, 240V SWG for 240V SWG, and adding IntelliConnect. The existing wiring that have worked for 12 years should continue to work, no?

 

[sagosto]

See post # 8... Either you want to do it correctly or you don't.. But, no one here is going to give you the OK to do it wrong.

Jim R.

I hear you. Pentair is saying otherwise which is conflicting me.

 

[ajw22]

Pentair technical support will not acknowledge that their flow switches fail and cells explode. We have seen a few. Here is one report - Explosion near the SWG

 

[sagosto]

Pentair technical support will not acknowledge that their flow switches fail and cells explode. We have seen a few. Here is one report - Explosion near the SWG

Does the pictures help understand the wiring any better?

 

[ajw22]

Breakers 27 and 29 are 120v. Breaker 32 is 240v.

An electrician has wire tracers that they can use to determine what wires connect to what CB. It will take a day of digging through the boxes to understand how things are connected.