Another oldie but goodie valve question

[Danawr]

Hello,

I am a bit confused about the water flow direction going through the following valve setup.

I have a Jandy Valve Actuator Model JVA2440 connected to a Fafco "xxxxReversible Valve". I can't read the "xxx" letters in front of the word "Reversible".
The Jandy has a microswitch with 3 positions: (1) Auto; (2) Off; (3) Rev.
I have attached a photo of the setup.

The water comes from the filter into the valve, valve exits to pool, but the solar return intersects the valve at a 90 degree angle.
The Jandy box is perpendicular to the pipe coming from the filter and going to the pool.

I am not 100% sure about the water flow direction based on the direction of the valve handle.

If I put the microswitch to the "Rev" position, the handle moves sideways & matches the direction of the Solar incoming pipe. If I put the Solar Control panel setting to "On" the valve handle also moves sideways.

If I put the Solar Control panel setting to "Off" the handle move to the vertical position.

If I put the microswitch to the "Auto" position and the Solar Control panel setting to "Auto" the handle moves to the vertical position. This changes if I play with the temperature setting in the Solar Control Panel. If I raise the tempature setting the valve moves sideways. If I lower the temperature the valve moves to the vertical position.

I thought with a Fafco type valve if the "off" position of the valve pointed in the same direction as the pipe, flow in that pipe is turned off.

This setup seems to be just the opposite.

Hope this all makes sense,

Dana

 

[Rich D]

The opposite end of the handle is the "off" position. So what ever port that curved piece is facing is 'off'. So in the pic the top port is off and water will flow between the side and bottom port (solar on full I believe ). When the handle is horizontal then there is a 50/50 flow between solar and pool. When it is facing down the lower port is off ( full pool return).

The switch.

- Auto - gives the automation system control over the valve
- Off - turns off all power to valve so you can manually operate it
- Rev - simply reverses the current position of the valve using the actuator. So if the automation system has to solar "on" this Will turn solar 'off' it will remain reversed this way until you turn the switch back to auto. This allows to to use the actuator to manually position the valve while at the pad. You just need to remember to set it back to auto for reg operations.

 

[Rich D]

So in the pic the top port is off and water will flow between the side and bottom port (solar on full I believe ). When the handle is horizontal then there is a 50/50 flow between solar and pool. When it is facing down the lower port is off ( full pool return).

Correction.. I assume the handle only turns 90 degrees. So when the handle is horizontal then the solar is off.

 

[Danawr]

How do I reset everything so the Solar Control Panel matches your description instead of the what is happening now, just the opposite of how you describe.

Thanks,

Dana

 

[Danawr]

I found another post explaining how the automatic valve actuators work.
I will try those instructions to see if I can get the Solar Control Panel to set the handle in the suggested directions.

Thank you,

Dana

 

[Rich D]

How do I reset everything so the Solar Control Panel matches your description instead of the what is happening now, just the opposite of how you describe.

Thanks,

Dana

First, are you sure about the pipe orientation? From your description it sounds like the Solar is horizontal and the pool return is on top and from the filter is on bottom.

If you think things are working opposite of the way they should then try the switch in the 'Rev' position.

 

[Danawr]

Hello,
I have a Jandy, (JVA2440) actuator coupled with a Fafco Reversible valve.
Is it viewed as a "T"?
Are the two 't' ends the input and the stem the output?
Or is it viewed as a circle with the choice of input/output to any one of the 3 stems?
Thank you,
Dana

 

[mknauss]

Valves - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Valve Actuators - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

The above articles should help you understand the operation of the valves and actuators.

 

[Rich D]

The valve is designed to have one input and 2 outputs. You can fully shut off either output or if the valve is in between the 2 out puts there there will be proportional flow to both outputs. It can be plumbed to use any port as the input. Can you confirm the pipe orientation as asked in my last post or post some more detailed pics of the pad.

Thanks, Rich..

 

[Danawr]

Hello,
This Fafco valve says "Reversible" in large bold letters on it.
I believe my valve is being used as a sideways laying "T".
The top "T" connector is coming from the pump/filter source as an input source to the valve.
The bottom "T' connector is actually always open and is going to the pool as an output connector to the valve.
The stem connector is acting as an always open source from the Solar roof top.
I have attached a photo of the front of the valve and the back of the valve.
The top pipe is definitely coming from the pump/filter.
The bottom pipe is definitely going to the pool.
The side pipe is the Solar roof top source.
The valve handle travels 90 degress between the top pipe and halfway between the bottom pipe when actuated by the Jandy.
When I disconnected the Jandy and moved the handle manually, it traveled 180 degrees between to two 'T' ends.

The Solar source water has an upstream 2 way shutoff valve.
The pipe leading to the Solar roof top starts from a union connection between the filter and 3-way Jandy valve.
This pipe has a down stream 2-way shutoff valve.

It looks like to me, the 3-way Jandy valve was incorrectly installed.
Shouldn't it have been setup so the straight "T" ends would be from the pump/filter and the Solar source?
The stem would always have flow to the pool. Either all pump/filter source, Solar source or a mix of the two.

Thank you,

Dana

 

[Rich D]

When the handle is in the horizontal position both the top port and side port will be will be opened fully to the bottom port. So the other 3 way valve should have the flow going too the Solar array shut off. This will allow the solar to be bypassed. When it is in the vertical position the top port will be off and the side port will be open fully, the other 3 way valve should have flow directed to go too the Solar array.

Your description sounds like the actuator might be wired backwards. If you think this is the issue you can simply test it by putting the switch into the REV position

 

[Rich D]

The other possibility is the actuator stop points are not set correctly and the valve is supposed to be positively shutting off the solar when in the horizontal position. The handle would have to be rotated 180 degrees from the position in your pic for that to happen. That is a internal adjustment inside the actuator. Hopefully someone with more solar heating experience than me will chime in on this one..

 

[Danawr]

After reading the suggested manual...
I think I understand how a 3-way valve works.
Just to double check...
In a "standard" 3-way valve setup, the horizontal, (half way between ports A&C) position of the handle indicates both A&C are fully open & B is fully open.
So my setup, has A & B always open. Port C is either closed or open.
So this Jandy actuator only affects Port C.
Is it possible to get it to affect both Port C & B? I.E. Be able to shut off one or the other?

Thanks,
Dana

 

[Rich D]

Is it possible to get it to affect both Port C & B? I.E. Be able to shut off one or the other?

Yes. These valves are called 'diverter' valves however to better understand them the word 'Blocker' valve might be more appropriate. Whichever port the opposite end of the handle is pointing to will simply be blocked. If it is not pointed directly at the port then it will only be partially blocked. The handle can turn 360 degrees to block any of the ports.

When 24 vac is applied to one of the actuator wires it will turn the motor in a clockwise direction, when it is applied to the other actuator wire it will turn in a counterclockwise direction. The actuator only has 2 stops on it. One of the stops will stop the motor from turning only if the motor is turning in the clockwise direction. The other stop will only stop the motor from turning if it is turning in the counterclockwise direction. These stops are fully adjustable so the swing of the valve is fully adjustable.

You can get a good utube video that describes how to Change the stops on the actuator. My understanding is that Jandy made that actuator for Fafco many years ago so the procedure should be the same.

Before making some radical changes to your set up, you should be certain of exactly how it is supposed to be working.

This looks like a older set up so I would assume it was working correctly at one time and what you are describing does not seem like something that could happen from a broken part. Someone would have had to have opened the actuator and changed the settings.

Is the solar heater just not working at all?

When did it start not working?

Did you recently purchase the house so all this is new to you?

Thanks, Rich..

 

[Rich D]

When experimenting you need to be very careful not to 'dead head' the pump. In other words be sure water will always be flowing back to pool and not completely shut off at valve.

 

[Rich D]

I would suggest putting all valves and controller in auto mode and set the temp so the Solar should be operating. Then take pics of the control display and both of the jandy valves that control the solar. Be sure to describe where each of the ports go to on the other valve you have not described yet. A Pic from farther out from the pad would be helpful as well so we can see the entire pad.

 

[Danawr]

The system is probably 20+ years old. I purchased the house with this system already installed. Up until now, I had remained "ignorant" on the system & let my pool maintenance guy handle everything. Unfortunately, he moved away & his recommended replacement has already cost me a new pump.
I have uploaded the photos as well as a flowchart I put together of the system. I guess my next step is to understand how to manage the passive solar system.

 

[Rich D]

Well that flowchart certainly just confused me. It clearly states when the valve is in the vertical position the solar should be off. I always thought all jandy valves operated almost the same. So that if that valve handle was in the vertical position the top port should be totally shut off and the side and bottom port should be full on. this would push all the return water through the solar panels into the pool returns. That also makes no sense because I don't think you'd ever want all the return water going through the solar panels it would just be too much volume of water for solar heating. perhaps you should change the title of the thread to something like "looking for help with a FAFCO solar heater"

I'm assuming I am incorrect about the way that particular valve is working.. Do you have return water going to pool when the valve is in the vertical position?

 

[Rich D]

Perhaps @Pool Clown or @JamesW could help with this..

 

[Danawr]

I made a simpler chart.
But yes, The Jandy/Fafco valve only opens/closes Port B. Port A (to pool) & Port B (from Solar) are always open.
If the handle is in the vertical position, (Pointing to Port C) the only way to get return water to the pool is through the Solar system.
If the handle is position is horizontal, (Halfway between Port C & A), there is a mix of pool and solar heated water returning the pool.
One goal for improving the system is to see if I can get the 3-valve to operate on Ports C & B.
Will be starting threads about the solar system.
Thank you very much for your assistance.

Dana