Secondary SWG

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Flying Tivo said:
Two things i would try before buying anything:
1. Slow down the flow just enough for the flow switch to activate(i run mine 1200rpms@98watts) and run longer times.
2. Buy a standard solution for CYA and compare your testing, the CYA test is very subjective, you might have less than you think.
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Yep been there done that.
1) My SWG seems to cut out at about 1250 to 1300 RPM as well.. At least that is where the IC40 LEDs indicate inadequate flow. That is presumably the flow at which the internal flow switch shuts off... Is the SWG still generating chlorine just above that condition? Probably.. Is it producing at the same rate as if at the 25 GPM min spec? Maybe, not sure without running some tests. I've been a bit hesitant to run that slow but I might give that a try.

You are right that would extend the SWG run time while running the pump in a more efficient range. I think I tried this early on, but it is worth another more scientific and controlled test. The difference in speed between 1250 RPM and about 1900 which gets me to 25GPM extends my single turnover time about 2 hours. So if the SWG is generating at a consistent rate should be about 25% more output. I'll give it another try..

2) I've measured with 3 independent CYA test types (Test strip, regent / disappearing dot, and Lamotte spin touch (pool store setups) and get fairly consistent results.
 
wprileyjr3 said:
I understand the OP wants to run their pump at the most efficient speed and time. Looking at the math it doesn’t add up with two SWG. I am one of those people that run my VS pump 24/7 365 don’t close my pool. I run for 22 hours at 1500 rpm and 2 hours at 2200. Higher speed was when I would add bleach to pool still run that way with SWG. It costs about $16 a month to run my pump like that. So if I cut run time in half I would save $8 a month or $96 a year call it $100. Adding a second SWG will cost roughly $1100. So it will take 11 years to break even. Plus in that time figure replacing the cell twice (once every 5-6 years). You are then behind another $1200 you can’t break even. There is efficiency for the pump and also cost benefit to look at.
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Yeah your math doesn't work out for me either.

In reality the SWG are consumables. The 2nd SWG pays for itself in the sense that the cells have a limited operational life of something like 6 to 10K hours@100%. If you run two at 50% it is going to roughly last as long as having paying for the first one and its replacement. So the SWG costs are roughly the same over the life period of a two SWGs. Yeah you need a second power supply but I also have a better pricing for a second IC40 than $1200.. I can get an IC60 for less than that which effectively extend the operating life and reduce cost over time. But the difference in SWG cost over time is for purpose of discussion is roughly the same although I tend to believe running at 100% will probably degrade its reliability. In any case I see little difference in the overall SWG operating cost over time in a one vs two scenario.

So my break even time is essentially the lifespan of the first unit when at that time I would have bought the replacement for the first failed unit. Also most of the SWGs advertise about 10,000 hours and in reality it looks like about 8000 hours is MTBF. So if you are indeed running your SWG 24/7 will get you on average 333 days before failure if you run it at 100%.. So if I have to run at 100% my return is basically less than a year, but have twice the operational life as the single case.

However in the two SWG scenario I still get a reduction in the cost of running the pump 1/2 of the time.. which was my original point.. So with the SWG costs roughly the same and using your savings of $100 a year.. I save $100 over time in the two vs one SWG case. Yeah that's not a ton, but I'll take it... I'm also not sure about your per KWH electrical costs. I suspect mine are higher than yours but I'll consider them the same... Also your pool is larger than mine so maybe my it is $100 year but $60 a year for me.. I'll still take that..

I also find my heating costs are higher (wife uses pool 365 days a year and likes it heated) a little higher when I run the circulation longer (but still keeping the heat pump on for the same amount of time). I haven't performed any tests, but it seems like I lose some energy from the pool in the process of longer circulation. I'll consider that negligible for the comparison.

Return on investment aside, I'd rather have two SWG an not worry about being down for a few days while ordering a replacement since they are going to fail quite often running 100% since it is unlikely that both will fail at exactly the same time.
 
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Actually I run my pump 24/7. My SWG a Circupool RJ 45+ in my 22,000 gallon pool I run at about 25% to 30%. The use time on the cell is the same if I run at 25% for 24 hours or 100% for 6 hours. So from a cell life standpoint it makes no difference which run I do. But running a longer time gives me ability to bump up output if needed without adding another cell.
 
wprileyjr3 said:
Actually I run my pump 24/7. My SWG a Circupool RJ 45+ in my 22,000 gallon pool I run at about 25% to 30%. The use time on the cell is the same if I run at 25% for 24 hours or 100% for 6 hours. So from a cell life standpoint it makes no difference which run I do. But running a longer time gives me ability to bump up output if needed without adding another cell.
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Yeah I get it, and that's kinda what I'd like to be able to do as well which is my main motivation for a second cell. But it doesn't mean the operating costs are more. I'd like to run either one or two at less than 50% so I'm not replacing continuously.

I think my point really was that my philosophy for efficient pool electrical costs is that you would like to have your chlorine generation need be satisfied in about the time that you need to turn the pool water over. (yes I know there is no magic in the specific qty, but ideally you want to be able to turn the water over at least once a day). And if you can meet your chlorine needs in that efficient single turn over run time you are probably pretty optimal from an electrical consumption standpoint. If you start extending your run times from that most efficient single turn over time only to meet your chlorine needs, it is may be better to increase your chlorine generating capacity than to run the pool longer.
 
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scatkins said:
Good point.. The pool equipment is subjected to full day sun from morning till evening. And it does seem to be blazing hot when working on the equipment. Not hard to put some reflective material in front of it and shield it a little.. I'll give that a try just for grins..
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There was a recent thread (like in the last year) of someone who's pool equipment was mounted on a cinder block wall that faced the afternoon sun .. it it got really hot and was we wreaking havoc with the stuff... I'll see if I can find it.
 
Scate

Read through this thread with great interest. Have you considered that you may just have a cell that's not performing? It does happen and is why I think warranty is so important for salt systems. Have you cleaned the cell at all? Either way, I'd call Pentair and explain your situation. Not sure how old it is but you might get a pro-rated warranty replacement.

Chris
 

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An IC40 on a 14,000 gallon pool is more than enough.

A variable speed pump can run 24/7 if necessary at negligible cost.

You can purchase and install a second or third cell and power center if you want. That's your prerogative.

However, it's important to point out for anyone reading this post, that more SWGs are not necessary to keep up regardless of where the pool is.

If it's a heavily used commercial pool, that's a different situation, but a residential pool does not require the amount of chlorine that you think you need.

Something is wrong with your system or the operation of the system.
 
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setsailsoon said:
Scate

Read through this thread with great interest. Have you considered that you may just have a cell that's not performing? It does happen and is why I think warranty is so important for salt systems. Have you cleaned the cell at all? Either way, I'd call Pentair and explain your situation. Not sure how old it is but you might get a pro-rated warranty replacement.

Chris
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Chris,

Yes, I started investigating this last summer which was the first summer after construction of this particular new pool. It seemed to work ok when the pool was started up which was in a cooler season (about NOV of the year)... It maintained chlorine levels ok until I hit last summer and then I couldn't keep up even high running at a high % for 10 hours+.. And I did what everyone suggest and ran it longer. Last fall until just recently when the temperatures started getting hot it seemed to perform ok..

It produces chlorine, but I suppose how much is really the question. And as was suggested earlier I'm going to run an overnight test with and without SWG running to try and assess what the actual output is. I probably should have thought of that long ago, but I was presuming it was either working or not and it seemed to make chlorine.

I've cleaned it at regular intervals, but there has been very little noticeable scaling occurring and doesn't seem to have much effect. If I find that it is a bad unit I will certainly call Pentair, but so far it hasn't seemed to be defective.

I'm curious since you are close to my location with similar pool size, what has your experience been with your SWG performance in the peak summer? Any issues with it keeping up?
 
JamesW said:
An IC40 on a 14,000 gallon pool is more than enough.

A variable speed pump can run 24/7 if necessary at negligible cost.

You can purchase and install a second or third cell and power center if you want. That's your prerogative.

However, it's important to point out for anyone reading this post, that more SWGs are not necessary to keep up regardless of where the pool is.

If it's a heavily used commercial pool, that's a different situation, but a residential pool does not require the amount of chlorine that you think you need.

Something is wrong with your system or the operation of the system.
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Yep, so you say...and on the internet everyone is an expert. but still not relevant to the OP question which was a simple: Whats is the best configuration..?


No clue as to the relevance of your 24/7 comment other than pontificating.. We all know a VSP is efficient. .. If the IC40 is absolutely more than enough for any pool in any situation and something is wrong , then why would I ever need to run 24/7?
 
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JamesW said:
My post was mostly for the benefit of others so they are not misled about the situation.
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No one is "Misleading" anyone. .Just a simple question about best configuration on SWG that turned into yet another of the hundreds of chemistry discussions. Who knows.. some people might actually read the original question and not need to be protected...
 
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At 100% the 5 LEDs should be solid.

At 100% the cell produces chlorine for 265 seconds of each 5 minute period.

While producing, the "Cell" LED should be solid green.

After 265 seconds, the "Cell" LED should go out for 15 seconds and then back on for 265 seconds.

Can you verify that the cell is producing properly based on the above information?
 
JamesW said:
At 100% the 5 LEDs should be solid.

At 100% the cell produces chlorine for 265 seconds of each 5 minute period.

While producing, the "Cell" LED should be solid green.

After 265 seconds, the "Cell" LED should go out for 15 seconds and then back on for 265 seconds.

Can you verify that the cell is producing properly based on the above information?
Click to expand...

Yep I can verify the LEDs work as expected. .
 

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