Intellitouch low voltage circuit breaker tripping.

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ozdiver

ozdiver

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Oct 17, 2014
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Spring, TX
Pool Size
40000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Pool pumps did not run yesterday so I went to check out what it might be, finding the low voltage circuit breaker tripped for the relays.
Reset it and it tripped again.
Checked & tested breakers and found the Main Filter Pump breaker would not trip when I pushed the ground fault test button. So that is the 1st part I need.
Did not explain the low voltage issue.
Tried switching two of the low voltage circuit breakers to see if it was bad. It was not, the breaker I switched to tripped the same.

I suspect my Transformer might be toast. We had a pretty bad electrical storm a couple of days back. It was working afterwards, but it may have taken a surge.

My transformer model is a Pentair 521082.
I noticed in an old 2018 thread someone had to replace one of these and the replacement ended up being a different part number.
The replacement part number was never mentioned.
Any suggestions on locating the 'right' replacement? I have found a Pentair 521233 that 'looks' like the one, but it does not have anything that says it is a replacement for my part.
Odd think is when I zoom in on the picture of the listing it has my part number on the transformer. (link attached)

IntelliTouch Transformer 521233

IntelliTouch Transformer 521233
www.poolzoom.com www.poolzoom.com
 
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oz,

I have been doing this stuff for over 50 years and I have yet to see a bad power transformer that was not blown up due to being connected to the wrong power source.. but, then I have been wrong before..

I suspect the problem is one of your valves actuators is bad.. or maybe a relay..

I suggest that you remove all the external connectors going to your IntelliTouch circuit boards except for the power supply plug and see if the low voltage CB still pops.. If not, reconnect one item at a time until you find the offending one.

Might want to mark them so you know what goes where. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Followed your diagnostic tests and found is tripped with only the Power connected.
Looked closer @ board and saw some toast marks on the panel.
Removed the board, but did not see anything that corresponded to it on the PCB itself.
I seem to remember I had a board replaced soon after install and this may have been from that.
That said, the board has a faint smell to it.
Being a $500 board ($250 on ebay) I kinda need to be sure that is the culprit.
 
As you can see, the singe mark does not equate to a matching burn on actual PCB.
 

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Oz,

Lightning will often blow the tops off of chips or leave little black spots on the tops of them..

The problem is that while it blows up one, it often weakens others, and they can fail weeks or months later.. There is just no way to know for sure..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Thanks Jim,
It certainly points in that direction.
As I only trip the 18VAC breaker, can I put a multimeter across those 2 wires coming from the Transformer and validate they are in fact delivering that? I don't want to add to my woes by cooking something else that was ok.
 
Thanks Jim, I sent a message to Oz...
The 18vac breaker drives the 24dc relays, so if that's tripping then one of your relay coils or driver's is probably shorted. Most likely the drivers, but could also be the buffers (74xxx logic chips), I've had to replace those before too. Also could be the bridge rectifier for the 18vac input.
 

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With all the relays disconnected from the mainboard I still get the tripping. So the although there may be a relay problem, there is also something else on the mainboard. One way or the other the mainboard is getting all three voltage power feeds (Connection tested with multimeter) and when it does, the 18Vac breaker trips within a few seconds with no other connections. I have a used board being shipped, so we will see if that resolves the issue. Is there anything I can do to test the relays prior to hooking up the replacement board? Could I feed each relay 24Vdc to see if they switch? Not sure if they are mechanical or SSDs so whether I would hear them switch or not.
 
Oz,

You could use a ohmmeter between the two coil pins on each relay when they are disconnected from the board.. Each one should be about the same.. My guess would be 25 ohms or so, but I have never tested one. The key is they should all be the same.. If one reads zero ohms and all the rest have some valve, 10 to 100 ohms, then I would assume they are all good except the one that reads zero.. Test them right on the little screws on the relays..

What Tom was saying is even though the transformer is supplying good input to the board, the board has power supplies that convert the AC into DC and one of those could be bad..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
And the other likely culprit I mentioned would be the relay drivers... there are 3 socketed uln2803 transistor arrays on the board, these are used to drive the relays and any of the array elements can fail in a shorted state. I'd pop those out (carefully) and then see what your board is doing. If you do have a meter, in addition to Jim's tests I'd check the ac current draw - but if you're not handy with electronics it might be more trouble than it's worth.
 
I checked out the relays per Jim's direction. They are all about equal @ 8 Ohms. I have labelled and popped the uln2803's and will hook it back up to the power in the morning.
As for curent draw, something over 3A (hence the breaker popping). I am not sure I will be able to measure the actual draw quick enough before it pops the breaker. I run out of hands to hold pieces, connect, turn on power and insert my meter. Will do my best.
 
You might blow your 10A fuse, so it might be better to skip the measurement... but...

If you're measuring current you're meter should already be connected... and IT will be the thing that "turns the power on". For a current measurement, the meter should be in series with the power, in other words, imagine you "break" one of the 18vac supply wires and put 1 meter probe on one wire and 1 probe on the other. If you've got it hooked up right, current can't flow unless the meter is connected... because the current must go "through" the meter. Don't try to measure it like a voltage!! :)

As for speed, I use the min/max setting on my meter.
 
Sorry to chime in the middle of your troubleshooting but I noticed you mentioned the gfci was not tripping? Are you certain that it has power? Be sure to check it out, that could lead to your problem. A ground somewhere? Short circuit is possible cause. Or with gfci an open wire possibly.
 
Fishy,

We are working on a low voltage problem that pops a small circuit breaker on the EasyTouch panel.. None of what we are doing would ever pop one of the main GFCI breakers or the GFCI outlet.. They are just not related..

Thanks for the advice anyway, as it is always better to be safe than sorry.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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Soooo, with the uln2803's removed, the mainboard powers up and does not trip the 3A 18V breaker. I get several LEDs lighting up; Auto, Pool, Filter Pump & a flashing one indicating I should check the indoor control panel. So does that mean if I bought a new set of uln2803's I might breath new life into this system? Or am I grossly simplifying this?

Oh and Fishy, we have power and the GFCI breaker (Pool Pump) was just a faulty one. With nothing connected the test button should trip the breaker and it does not. Not sure when this failed, but I only identified it during this 'event'.
 
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