Just signed up with a pool maintenance person for the first time and he tells me the laterals on my Hayward S244T ProSeries sand filter (its about 7 or 8 years old) are broken. He suggests that I replace the whole filter with a new pentair cartridge filter as it will get me a cleaner pool and save money in the long term. He is very experienced and seems to know what he is talking about. But before shelling out over $1000 for the work - Is he giving me good advice? I mean I know cartridges filter more finely than sand filters but is it really worth the cost to do a full replacement v just repair and replace the sand in the old one?
Should I Replace my Sand Filter
- Thread starter Ronson_321
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Welcome to the forum!
What is wrong with the sand filter? It is true you use a lot of water to clean them. But it is easy and cheap. If you are using a pool service I suspect you do not track your own water chemistry and the pool service uses trichlor and weekly 'shock'. With that type of sanitizing method, you need to drain/remove large amounts of water on a regular basis to not let the pool water chemistry get away from you. The cartridge filter will not use water to clean it (the pool service will break it down for a clean two or three times a year for a fee) but your chemistry may get away from you because you are not changing out enough water.
TFPC gets rid of those issues, but you must take control of your water chemistry, not a pool service.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.
What is wrong with the sand filter? It is true you use a lot of water to clean them. But it is easy and cheap. If you are using a pool service I suspect you do not track your own water chemistry and the pool service uses trichlor and weekly 'shock'. With that type of sanitizing method, you need to drain/remove large amounts of water on a regular basis to not let the pool water chemistry get away from you. The cartridge filter will not use water to clean it (the pool service will break it down for a clean two or three times a year for a fee) but your chemistry may get away from you because you are not changing out enough water.
TFPC gets rid of those issues, but you must take control of your water chemistry, not a pool service.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Marty beat me to the question. Sand in the pool is the sign of broken laterals. If you don't have sand in the pool, how did he make this judgement? The only other way would be to open the filter, empty all the sand and look at them.
If you say yes, now that you mention it there has been sand in the pool he may be giving you the straight skinny. But, no sand in the pool would set off my alarm.
Personally, I'm partial to sand filters. They are quick and easy to clean and seldom need any other service. Contrary to what people will tell you, the sand never needs to be replaced (unless you chemically damage it). You say the cartridge filter will "filter more finely ", but the sand filter will do the same thing with a tiny addition of DE powder.
The problem folks have with sand filters is they tend to backwash too often. A sand filter should only be backwashed when the pressure rises 25% over the clean pressure. It's funny, but a dirty sand filter cleans the water better than a clean one.
Not in the industry, but is this the correct part? Lateral Assembly w/ Center Pipe (S244T)
If only one of the laterals is broken, Pivot Style Lateral, 7 3/16 might even do.
If your plumbing has unions on all the filter connected pipes, removing the valve and sand, installing the $78 part (or $7), and returning the sand and valve should be an easy DIY job.
If that $78 is better spent toward a different filter would depend on the condition of the rest of the filter. Unless you are fixing broken parts on the filter, a sand filter has no operating costs. Just backwash and rarely do a deep clean with a garden hose.
Edit: Even though it doesn't filter nearly as much water, my pool robot has pleated cartridges and take contaminants directly from the pool surface. I've noticed a definite difference between the robot and a pressure side cleaner.
If only one of the laterals is broken, Pivot Style Lateral, 7 3/16 might even do.
If your plumbing has unions on all the filter connected pipes, removing the valve and sand, installing the $78 part (or $7), and returning the sand and valve should be an easy DIY job.
If that $78 is better spent toward a different filter would depend on the condition of the rest of the filter. Unless you are fixing broken parts on the filter, a sand filter has no operating costs. Just backwash and rarely do a deep clean with a garden hose.
Edit: Even though it doesn't filter nearly as much water, my pool robot has pleated cartridges and take contaminants directly from the pool surface. I've noticed a definite difference between the robot and a pressure side cleaner.
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Good Californians use cartridge filters.
Backwashing consumes water here in the Land of Perpetual Drought. And any pool discharge into storm drains is illegal. Backwash waste line must go to sewer so it will be treated as wastewater and not flow to inhabited streams & rivers. (This may vary by county, I'm not sure. It's true where I live.)
Backwashing consumes water here in the Land of Perpetual Drought. And any pool discharge into storm drains is illegal. Backwash waste line must go to sewer so it will be treated as wastewater and not flow to inhabited streams & rivers. (This may vary by county, I'm not sure. It's true where I live.)
Thanks for the reply. No sand in the pool I had been having trouble getting the water clear (which is why I hired him) with recurring algae and cloudiness and he said the filter was to blame as it was letting stuff that had been filtered back into the pool and recommended I replace the whole thing. One thing to note is that in the 7 or 8 years I have had the filter I have never changed the sand and I had expected him to recommend that be done but had not expected him to recommend changing the whole filter out.
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Well. You do not have a filtering problem, you have a chemistry problem.
You need to follow the SLAM Process. To do that, you need a proper test kit, see Test Kits Compared. I suggest the TF-100 A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.
Sand in a filter rarely ever needs changing. A deep clean may be wise. See Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
You need to follow the SLAM Process. To do that, you need a proper test kit, see Test Kits Compared. I suggest the TF-100 A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.
Sand in a filter rarely ever needs changing. A deep clean may be wise. See Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
He is either mis-informed or being less than truthful to you. I'd cut ties with him and take care of it yourself.
He only been twice and the pool actually looks bluer and clearer than it has for a long time (well within acceptable swimming standards to my eye) which probably means he has got the chemistry mostly right. But he insist it is not up to the standards of his other pools and to address that I need the new filter.
On balance I probably should go back to doing it myself but my experience over the past few years has been frustrating which is why I
Thanks.
He only been twice and the pool actually looks bluer and clearer than it has for a long time (well within acceptable swimming standards to my eye) which probably means he has got the chemistry mostly right. But he insist it is not up to the standards of his other pools and to address that I need that new filter.
On balance I probably should go back to doing it myself but my experience over the past few years has been frustrating which is why I sought professional help - but if he's recommending I spend over $1000 unnecessarily then I probably chose the wrong guy!
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Well, it's your pool to handle how you see fit. I just look at the fact that he is trying to claim a chemistry problem is a filter problem. If there is no sand in the pool, then you don't have broken laterals - which he said you did.
We can teach you to get rid of the frustration. I'm going to guess that you have a floater with a few pucks in it and once a week you toss in some shock. You may even have the
Saturday morning ritual, dip a bottle of water out of the pool and take it to the pool store (they give you the bottle for free). They test it and sell you what they say you need to "fix" what ails your pool. What no one in the pool industry will tell you is that those products (tabs and granular shock) are almost half stabilizer (CYA). Pools like your end up being way over stabilized.
Your pool guy wants to sell you a new filter. when that don't work he is going to suggest several "chemical treatments" at an additional cost. When those don't work he is going ot blame previous maintenance and say you have "chlorine lock" and you need to start over with fresh water.
I've been here for six years. Every year we see the same thing, pool owners like yourself who follow the professional advice and just can't get their pool clear.
If you want to follow our advice it will take some work for a few weeks. The pool guy can (and won't) do it because it takes work every day and he won't believe what we are saying. Once it's clear you are in maintenance mode. I will tell you, the vast majority of folks here put two things in their pool - chlorine and muratic acid. That's it. A couple of minutes a day.
Circling back, what Marty said is right on point - you don't have a filtration problem, you have a chemical problem. Without test results I can't be "positive", but if experience tells me anything you will follow along with what I said.
Have you looked at our Pool School? Start with these:
www.troublefreepool.com
www.troublefreepool.com
www.troublefreepool.com
We can teach you to get rid of the frustration. I'm going to guess that you have a floater with a few pucks in it and once a week you toss in some shock. You may even have the
Saturday morning ritual, dip a bottle of water out of the pool and take it to the pool store (they give you the bottle for free). They test it and sell you what they say you need to "fix" what ails your pool. What no one in the pool industry will tell you is that those products (tabs and granular shock) are almost half stabilizer (CYA). Pools like your end up being way over stabilized.
Your pool guy wants to sell you a new filter. when that don't work he is going to suggest several "chemical treatments" at an additional cost. When those don't work he is going ot blame previous maintenance and say you have "chlorine lock" and you need to start over with fresh water.
I've been here for six years. Every year we see the same thing, pool owners like yourself who follow the professional advice and just can't get their pool clear.
If you want to follow our advice it will take some work for a few weeks. The pool guy can (and won't) do it because it takes work every day and he won't believe what we are saying. Once it's clear you are in maintenance mode. I will tell you, the vast majority of folks here put two things in their pool - chlorine and muratic acid. That's it. A couple of minutes a day.
Circling back, what Marty said is right on point - you don't have a filtration problem, you have a chemical problem. Without test results I can't be "positive", but if experience tells me anything you will follow along with what I said.
Have you looked at our Pool School? Start with these:
ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
There are several items things every pool owner should know about swimming pool water. We share details on the basics of Pool Water Chemistry.
www.troublefreepool.com
Recommended Pool Chemicals
Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.
www.troublefreepool.com
How to Chlorinate Your Pool
Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.
www.troublefreepool.com
You hit the nail on the head ! I had a floater with a few pucks in it and occasionally throw in some shock and/or visit Leslie's for a free test. My last drama was caused when the chlorine stopped working. I finally worked out this was because CYA was through the roof (probably from the pucks) and I had to drain half the water out to reduce it. It was at this point I decided to fire myself and hire a professional - but as you can see that is not working out that well either.Well, it's your pool to handle how you see fit. I just look at the fact that he is trying to claim a chemistry problem is a filter problem. If there is no sand in the pool, then you don't have broken laterals - which he said you did.
We can teach you to get rid of the frustration. I'm going to guess that you have a floater with a few pucks in it and once a week you toss in some shock. You may even have the
Saturday morning ritual, dip a bottle of water out of the pool and take it to the pool store (they give you the bottle for free). They test it and sell you what they say you need to "fix" what ails your pool. What no one in the pool industry will tell you is that those products (tabs and granular shock) are almost half stabilizer (CYA). Pools like your end up being way over stabilized.
Your pool guy wants to sell you a new filter. when that don't work he is going to suggest several "chemical treatments" at an additional cost. When those don't work he is going ot blame previous maintenance and say you have "chlorine lock" and you need to start over with fresh water.
I've been here for six years. Every year we see the same thing, pool owners like yourself who follow the professional advice and just can't get their pool clear.
If you want to follow our advice it will take some work for a few weeks. The pool guy can (and won't) do it because it takes work every day and he won't believe what we are saying. Once it's clear you are in maintenance mode. I will tell you, the vast majority of folks here put two things in their pool - chlorine and muratic acid. That's it. A couple of minutes a day.
Circling back, what Marty said is right on point - you don't have a filtration problem, you have a chemical problem. Without test results I can't be "positive", but if experience tells me anything you will follow along with what I said.
Have you looked at our Pool School? Start with these:
ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
There are several items things every pool owner should know about swimming pool water. We share details on the basics of Pool Water Chemistry.
Recommended Pool Chemicals
Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.
How to Chlorinate Your Pool
Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.
But (silver lining) I have now find this site so am going to study up and give self-maintenance another go - you guys are awesome and make it seem viable !
I think I have a troublesome pool because its located right next to a huge oak tree that drops leaves and pollen into it and makes it a breeding ground for algae.
- May 3, 2014
- 59,398
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Trust me, over the next couple of months we will have hundreds of folks show up here with similar stories..
I know Marty mentioned it above, but you need to get your test kit ordered. You already know what high CYA does and I feel you are there again.
Order a TF-100 Test Kit ™ and at least include the XL Option . That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.
While entirely optional, I also have the Speedstir Magnetic Stirrer and TFTestkits.net . They speed testing and accuracy.
Sadly, the professional wasn't going to be able to help you. Because they only come once a week they also float tabs and toss in shock.
To clear your pool you will need follow the SLAM process.
SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain
We’ve all had to deal with a green pool. Clear algae from your pool with a SLAM! Read here to use shock level and maintain to clear your pool.
www.troublefreepool.com