I added 105oz washing soda and my TA is now 60, but my ph is 8, and the instructions provided in the ascorbic acid post say to keep it at 7.2, so now I guess I need to add muriatic acid to bring ph down? I am out now. Will it be ok to wait til morning to get more?
Yellow stains on liner
- Thread starter cholmes28
- Start date
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,861
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Oh boy. Well, hard to say. But an elevated pH like that can certainly stir-up some iron in the water. I hope you can get to it quickly
I battle iron stains every Spring and do an annual AA treatment upon opening. ATL and MEM have the same weather and your pool will be warming up quickly in April. I recommend putting your winter cover/tarp over your pool for at least a week while you are slowly re-balancing the chlorine to be able to keep the FC low while using the polyfill. You can still run your pump as normal but the cover will greatly decrease the chances of an algae bloom and need to SLAM, which will precipitate the metals again.
I normally do my AA treatment in early March when the water is still cold and I keep the tarp on for almost the entire month of March. Even with my annual treatments, I normally will get some staining back on my white fiberglass steps, which I just put vitamin C tablets in a sock to spot treat.
I normally do my AA treatment in early March when the water is still cold and I keep the tarp on for almost the entire month of March. Even with my annual treatments, I normally will get some staining back on my white fiberglass steps, which I just put vitamin C tablets in a sock to spot treat.
Thanks for response, but I do not close my pool during winter, and I do not have a cover anymore. Once you get the TA and pH brought back up to normal, how long does it usually take you to get FC up and all the AA gone?
Eliminating the AA doesn't take much time with a moderate amount of chlorine. I believe the prescribed time to slowly bring up the FC is over 2 weeks while the iron is suspended in the water. Since I normally keep my pool covered the whole month of March during the process, I end up slowly increasing it over 3-4 weeks.
I have rushed it before and saw the stains return quickly and even more intense. Your pipes can also have iron stains which the iron gets released during AA and then precipitate to the pool surface with FC increased too fast.
In your situation, I would either buy a tarp to cover it for a couple weeks or I would do a water exchange immediately after AA treatment to replace 50 to 75% of the water. If you keep the same water without covering it, you will either get an algae outbreak or make the stains come back.
How slowly do I bring up FC? My ph is now 7.3 and TA is 50, and CYA is 40, so is there some type of formula for raising the FC? I just added 1/2 gal 10%, which would raise FC 1.9. Just looking for guidance on what increments to raise and how long between. Thx!
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,861
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Slowly. Andy has an advantage of using a cover to allow him to increase FC slower. But you have sun on the water and you must avoid algae. The quote before is from the Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading page:
I read that but just to be clear, when it says try to take it up to minimum for my CYA level, does that mean that I start by adding enough chlorine at once to raise FC to minimum level, then retest after an hour and just keep adding enough to get it to minimum level? The hard part is knowing when all the AA is gone. Min FC is 2, and I lose about 1-1.5 daily due to sun.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,861
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Don't add bleach all at once to reach your minimum. You probably have Poly 60 still in there to help prevent algae. So add bleach slowly over the course of a few hours, monitoring after each application. Over the course of a whole day or two you should start to see the FC get closer to your minimum on the chart. But if you go too fast, you almost shock the water (not like a SLAM/shock), but you know what I mean.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,861
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Hopefully your water is still a little chilly which is good to reduce the chances of algae. That's why many people (like Andy above) do their AA treatment as soon as possible in later winter/early spring while the water is cold and doesn't depend on chlorine as much.
I don't know how cheap or expensive the water/sewage is in ATL but it is very cheap in Memphis. It only increases by water bill by approx $150 to refill my entire pool, sewage included. If your city water is cheap, you may want to do a decent water exchange immediately after AA. CYA will need to be replaced but nothing several of the evil trichlor pucks can't fix.
The city water is going to still have minor amounts of iron but the accumulation of iron is due to evaporation and refill over several years. If you do a 50% water exchange, you will be cutting the iron content almost in half and will be able to increase FC a little faster. Also, with the water level lower for a few days, you would be able to move more % of the "iron water" through the polyfill to absorb the iron faster. You will also have to use less sequestrant.
The city water is going to still have minor amounts of iron but the accumulation of iron is due to evaporation and refill over several years. If you do a 50% water exchange, you will be cutting the iron content almost in half and will be able to increase FC a little faster. Also, with the water level lower for a few days, you would be able to move more % of the "iron water" through the polyfill to absorb the iron faster. You will also have to use less sequestrant.
After several days of slowly adding chlorine, no yellow stains came back and water is as clear as I have ever seen it! How do I know that all the AA is gone? Also my numbers this am are FC 1.2, pH 7.4, TA 50, CYA 35, other than bringing the FC back up, what other things should I change?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,861
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Great to hear the water is clear & stable. 
Now to keep it that way. You still need to slowly increase the FC to about 3-4. It may take a while if it's still removing some of the AA from the water, but try to increase the FC slowly to avoid algae. Your FC is so low, algae is the last thing you want. If you still have some Poly-60, you can add it as a precaution. I suspect once the FC begins to hold steady, you know the AA is all gone. Keep the pH in that 7.4 range as well. :goodjojb:
Now to keep it that way. You still need to slowly increase the FC to about 3-4. It may take a while if it's still removing some of the AA from the water, but try to increase the FC slowly to avoid algae. Your FC is so low, algae is the last thing you want. If you still have some Poly-60, you can add it as a precaution. I suspect once the FC begins to hold steady, you know the AA is all gone. Keep the pH in that 7.4 range as well. :goodjojb:Well, I spoke too soon. I began to bring the FC back up slowly as suggested, adding only enough to raise it to around 2-3 ppm for about a week, then eventually up to where I like to keep it - around 6, but I never added more than 1/2 gal bleach (which raises FC by 1.9) until the last week or so. Now, I am noticing the yellow stains are back! Argh! As I understood the process, since I am not replacing the water, the iron never actually leaves the water, so my job is to keep it suspended in the water which would require monthly maintenance doses of the Metal Free, but it has not even been 3 weeks, and it is back. What did I do wrong, and do I have to do the whole AA treatment all over again? Here is my log of what I added, and what my FC loss has been if this helps figure out what I did wrong. Clearly I either also have some type of algae, or the AA is somehow still eating up my FC, or something, because server since 4/19, I have been losing a lot of FC per day (avg of 3 to 4):
4/12 added 3.5lbs AA in 4 separate treatments 30 min apart till stains were gone
4/12 added Metal Magic
4/13 added Poly-60
4/13 added washing soda
4/14 added muriatic acid
4/14 1pm 66oz bleach
4/14 FC 1.3, 5pm 32oz bleach
4/15 7am 52oz bleach
4/15 11am 31oz bleach
4/16 9am, FC 1.2, 62oz bleach
4/16 11am FC 2.1, 32oz bleach (lost .9 FC in 4 hrs)
4/16 5pm FC 1.2, 131oz bleach (lost 1.8 FC in 6 hrs)
4/17 9am FC 4, 35oz bleach (lost .5 FC overnight)
4/17 1pm FC 4, 35oz bleach (lost 1 FC in 4hrs)
4/18 9am FC 2.5, 86oz bleach (lost 2.5 FC in 20 hrs)
4/19 11am FC 1.5, 155oz bleach (lost 3.5 FC in 26hrs
4/20 11am FC 3.0, 100oz bleach (lost 3 FC in 24hrs)
4/22 10am FC2.0, 104oz bleach (lost 4 FC in 48hrs)
At this point I added bleach at around ½ gal, every other day but did not log it
4/30 11am FC 1.6, 128oz bleach
5/2 10am FC 1.2, 131oz bleach (lost 4.1 FC in 23 hrs)
5/3 11am FC 1.2, 200oz bleach (lost 3.8 FC in 25 hrs)
5/3 3pm FC 4.0 no add (lost 3 FC in 4 hrs full sun)
5/4 8am FC 2.8, 128oz bleach (lost 1.2 FC in 17 hrs mostly overnight)
5/5 6pm FC 0.6, 186oz bleach (lost 5.9 FC in 30 hours)
I just tested at 9 pm to prepare for an OCLT and here are full results:
FC 5.4
PH 7.6
TA 50
CYA 40
4/12 added 3.5lbs AA in 4 separate treatments 30 min apart till stains were gone
4/12 added Metal Magic
4/13 added Poly-60
4/13 added washing soda
4/14 added muriatic acid
4/14 1pm 66oz bleach
4/14 FC 1.3, 5pm 32oz bleach
4/15 7am 52oz bleach
4/15 11am 31oz bleach
4/16 9am, FC 1.2, 62oz bleach
4/16 11am FC 2.1, 32oz bleach (lost .9 FC in 4 hrs)
4/16 5pm FC 1.2, 131oz bleach (lost 1.8 FC in 6 hrs)
4/17 9am FC 4, 35oz bleach (lost .5 FC overnight)
4/17 1pm FC 4, 35oz bleach (lost 1 FC in 4hrs)
4/18 9am FC 2.5, 86oz bleach (lost 2.5 FC in 20 hrs)
4/19 11am FC 1.5, 155oz bleach (lost 3.5 FC in 26hrs
4/20 11am FC 3.0, 100oz bleach (lost 3 FC in 24hrs)
4/22 10am FC2.0, 104oz bleach (lost 4 FC in 48hrs)
At this point I added bleach at around ½ gal, every other day but did not log it
4/30 11am FC 1.6, 128oz bleach
5/2 10am FC 1.2, 131oz bleach (lost 4.1 FC in 23 hrs)
5/3 11am FC 1.2, 200oz bleach (lost 3.8 FC in 25 hrs)
5/3 3pm FC 4.0 no add (lost 3 FC in 4 hrs full sun)
5/4 8am FC 2.8, 128oz bleach (lost 1.2 FC in 17 hrs mostly overnight)
5/5 6pm FC 0.6, 186oz bleach (lost 5.9 FC in 30 hours)
I just tested at 9 pm to prepare for an OCLT and here are full results:
FC 5.4
PH 7.6
TA 50
CYA 40
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Sorry to hear your frustration but it does not surprise me. This is why I commented that I do an AA treatment every spring. I am able to remove more and more iron each year but cannot totally eradicate minor stains. Using metal free is a temporary solution because it's suspends the metal in the water and you have to remove the iron from the water to mitigate stains. This is why I mentioned that I do the AA and exchange about 50% of the water because it's the easiest way to quickly reduce the iron in the water. The metal sequestrant is also going to minimize the effectiveness of using polyfill.
The AA will be eaten up by the chlorine in a matter of days so that should not be in your water anymore. You've had your FC low for many days and spring is going to have a lot of Crud getting blown into your pool from trees. You may have to settle with the stains for a little while to ensure you don't end up getting algae and other organics taking over your pool.
The AA will be eaten up by the chlorine in a matter of days so that should not be in your water anymore. You've had your FC low for many days and spring is going to have a lot of Crud getting blown into your pool from trees. You may have to settle with the stains for a little while to ensure you don't end up getting algae and other organics taking over your pool.
OCLT passed. Lost .4 overnight.
Ok so did I do anything wrong with my AA treatment? The only thing I can think of is that I skimped on the Metal Magic as it said to use 1 bottle/10k gal and my pool is 27k, but I only used 2 bottles. Could that have caused the issue to return so fast?
Why am I losing so much FC? I figure I lost 22 in the the last 5 days, which is an average of 4.4 FC per day!
Do I need to do the entire AA treatment all over again, and if so how do I avoid being back in this situation in another month?
At 27k gal, replacing 1/3 of water would increase my water bill by about $45, much less expensive than what I spent on AA treatment. So what now? Replace some water and do another AA treatment? Why am I losing so much FC, how do I keep from having to do this every month? How is the metal getting there in first place? I have lived here 9 years and this is the first time I have had this issue.
I had water tested at pool store and they said no metals, but they said that the test would show 0 unless tested after sequestering agent has been added. I just bought some iron and copper test strips online, and I also bought the CuLator Metal Eliminator (PowerPak 1.0 - CuLator Metal Eliminator and Stain Preventer) to see if it works or at least indicates what metal I have.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Ok so did I do anything wrong with my AA treatment? The only thing I can think of is that I skimped on the Metal Magic as it said to use 1 bottle/10k gal and my pool is 27k, but I only used 2 bottles. Could that have caused the issue to return so fast?
Why am I losing so much FC? I figure I lost 22 in the the last 5 days, which is an average of 4.4 FC per day!
Do I need to do the entire AA treatment all over again, and if so how do I avoid being back in this situation in another month?
At 27k gal, replacing 1/3 of water would increase my water bill by about $45, much less expensive than what I spent on AA treatment. So what now? Replace some water and do another AA treatment? Why am I losing so much FC, how do I keep from having to do this every month? How is the metal getting there in first place? I have lived here 9 years and this is the first time I have had this issue.
I had water tested at pool store and they said no metals, but they said that the test would show 0 unless tested after sequestering agent has been added. I just bought some iron and copper test strips online, and I also bought the CuLator Metal Eliminator (PowerPak 1.0 - CuLator Metal Eliminator and Stain Preventer) to see if it works or at least indicates what metal I have.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
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One other question - why if left alone do the metal stains continue to get worse by the day? Seems to behave like algae in that is spreads and gets more prominent.
Maybe @Texas Splash can chime in for someone with a bit more experience. No sense in doing a water exchange if the iron has already precipitated to your pool surface. AA removes it from the surfaces and releases it into the water so you would want to only pump out water immediately after AA has released the iron.
What did you do to actually remove the iron from the water? I don't really see anything mentioned about using polyfill to absorb the iron. I think your metal sequestrant just wore off after a few weeks and couldn't hold on to the iron any more. This would be why you are seeing it increasing over time as the sequestrant is fading away.
If it were me, I would just get your pool all balanced to know you don't have any algae and ignore the stain for a month. Since pools in our region start getting pretty hot in mid to late June, I would do an AA treatment in the 2nd half of June and immediately exchange at least 50-75% of the water. This will remove at least half the iron and then make it easier to use the polyfill on the remaining iron to lower it enough to minimize staining while allowing you to balance the FC faster. This will also cool off your water temp for the hot summer months.
You could spend $200-300 on AA, multiple bottles of Metal Free, and CuLator packs or just $150 on AA and new water. The sewer is the best absorber of metals in water as long as your water source is cheap.
What did you do to actually remove the iron from the water? I don't really see anything mentioned about using polyfill to absorb the iron. I think your metal sequestrant just wore off after a few weeks and couldn't hold on to the iron any more. This would be why you are seeing it increasing over time as the sequestrant is fading away.
If it were me, I would just get your pool all balanced to know you don't have any algae and ignore the stain for a month. Since pools in our region start getting pretty hot in mid to late June, I would do an AA treatment in the 2nd half of June and immediately exchange at least 50-75% of the water. This will remove at least half the iron and then make it easier to use the polyfill on the remaining iron to lower it enough to minimize staining while allowing you to balance the FC faster. This will also cool off your water temp for the hot summer months.
You could spend $200-300 on AA, multiple bottles of Metal Free, and CuLator packs or just $150 on AA and new water. The sewer is the best absorber of metals in water as long as your water source is cheap.
What is the Polyfill you mentioned? I searched TFP, but did not really find anything that explains it other than people mentioning they used it. The CuLator Metal Eliminator pouch is put in the skimmer and supposed to remove 1ppm of metal from pool, and I bought one to try. It also turns color to let you know what metal you have.
CuLator will work fine to absorb the metals but I think you know it is iron. Polyfill or Poly-fil is pillow stuffing and is cheap.
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