Suction side Air leak from skimmer line

[rp7777]

I have a suction side air leak when I open the valve for the skimmer. The skimmer also is where I attach my vacuum and that is really when I notice the pump basket really empty out. It seems the added head from the pool hoses being attached exacerbates the issue. I have even only attached one 4 ft hose and made sure it is completely underwater and the pool pump immediately loses prime.

6 years ago I personally replaced all my pool equipment(intelliflo variable speed pump, filter, added solar panels that lay behind my pool(not on the roof), and a solar panel controller. The repiping included trenching and modifying an additional loop to incorporate the solar panels. I share this to give you an idea that I got pretty intimate with my setup whether I installed it correctly or not

Fast forward to these current weeks. I noticed the pump not holding prime with the vac was being used.

troubleshooting steps performed:

I replaced the entire pool vac and hoses(it was time anyway)
I replaced my variable speed with another one 2 days ago and installed it myself...It was also in need of replacement (my fault but that is another story)
I checked all the joints and the 3 way valve coming up from the ground and leading to the pump using the following methods:
-flooded each joint with a garden hose hoping to drown a potential air leak..no change at all.
-covered all the joints and valve with bubbles...no change and no noticeable bubbles being sucked it.
-applied shaving cream to all the joints...no change and no foam did get sucked in anywhere
-Applied saran wrap to all the joints hoping to suffocate any air leaks. I even completely wrapped the the valve. I did not notice any movement or what appeared to be suction of the saran wrap. I still have it on the pipes and you can see in the photo just because I do not have a need to immediately take it off. I can assure you that if those pipes required air to survive, they would be dead. That saran wrap is wrapped tight and surprisingly seems to be the most convincing troubleshooting method.

Since I installed all the piping except for the parts that is under the concrete deck and I have photos, I know where my glue joints are. I plan to strategically dig up where those joints are for the skimmer line and saturate the hole with water until it begins to fill to see if it any potential air leaks can be identified by the pipe sucking in water vs air and eliminating the air in the pump basket.

Any other suggestions or input before I call out a leak detection company if all my troubling shooting fails being that there is no way for me to detect a leak under the concrete deck and skimmer itself.

FYI...All the excavation photos are from 2014 when I originally did the installation. The other photos are new photos

 

[duraleigh]

A suction leak can certainly be underground but it almost NEVER is. IF this has only been a couple of weeks, a change must've occurred. I don't know what that change is and I wouldn't attempt a guess at the location of the leak but the overwhelming experience on this forum is it is NOT underground.

I would review every joint, gasket and fixture on the suction side once more before I began to dig. I assume you checked the obvious things at the skimmer.....weir door operating correctly......water half way up in the skimmer.

 

[rp7777]

A suction leak can certainly be underground but it almost NEVER is. IF this has only been a couple of weeks, a change must've occurred. I don't know what that change is and I wouldn't attempt a guess at the location of the leak but the overwhelming experience on this forum is it is NOT underground.

I would review every joint, gasket and fixture on the suction side once more before I began to dig. I assume you checked the obvious things at the skimmer.....weir door operating correctly......water half way up in the skimmer.

I don’t have a weir door and my water level is at max height. I will check again but it’s been several weeks, maybe a couple of months and during that time nothing has changed because the pool has not been used because it was considered my off season. Now that we are starting I use the pool again as it warms up is where I have become forced to address it.
I still have the Saran Wrap on and yet I still have total loss of prime on the suction side. As soon as I turn the valve to open the skimmer, the basket begins to lose water. If I add a fully submerged hose 4ft hose, then the basket empties out and struggled to maintain any water.

 

[rp7777]

I just replaced with new o rings on the 3 way valve and the lubed them. Still the same issue as soon as I plug a fully submerged single 4ft hose

 

[Jimrahbe]

rp,

Are you trying to suck all the water the pump is getting from a hose stuck in your skimmer?

What happens when you run all main drain? And then when you slowly move the valve to about 75% skimmer and 25% main drain?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[rp7777]

rp,

Are you trying to suck all the water the pump is getting from a hose stuck in your skimmer?

What happens when you run all main drain? And then when you slowly move the valve to about 75% skimmer and 25% main drain?

Thanks,

Jim R.

where

 

[rp7777]

100% main drain- no air in the pump
50% main/skimmer- air starts enter the pump
100% skimmer and the pump is starving for water
I’ve had this setup since 2014. Never had skimmer issues until about 2 months ago. I wasn’t playing close attention to it because we weren’t using the Pool but we also do not have a need to winterize it since it’s Florida. I noticed the pool vac was not cleaning the pool floor properly because I could see vac streaks on the algae that was starting to form. Normally my vac does a great job cleaning (past couple year since I discovered Troublefreepool)with the occasional manually brushing as needed

 

[rp7777]

I dug out and exposed the suction side pipes near my pump and filled it with water. So far I am still getting the same results. The pump begins to lose water when using the skimmer and gets starved of water when just adding one 4 ft section of hose

 

[pookiesunshine]

try rigging a way to pressure test (low pressure) the skimmer line section. and keep the dug out filled with water just to see if any air bubbles are noted, although you seem to have ruled that out already. good luck.

 

[duraleigh]

100% main drain- no air in the pump
50% main/skimmer- air starts enter the pump
100% skimmer and the pump is starving for water

Based on the sequence you describe, will it return to no air in the pump if you close the suction side again and return to 100% main drain?

That places the air leak somewhere in between the skimmer and where the skimmer connects into the main suction line. Right?

 

[rp7777]

try rigging a way to pressure test (low pressure) the skimmer line section. and keep the dug out filled with water just to see if any air bubbles are noted, although you seem to have ruled that out already. good luck.

I’m not sure how I can rig something to create some low air pressure.

 

[rp7777]

Based on the sequence you describe, will it return to no air in the pump if you close the suction side again and return to 100% main drain?

That places the air leak somewhere in between the skimmer and where the skimmer connects into the main suction line. Right?

Yes. If I go back to 100% main open then it fills up again with water. The problem is definitely between the skimmer and just before the exposed pipes that I dug out.
Any chance a small object stuck in the pipe could cause this issue?

 

[duraleigh]

Any chance a small object stuck in the pipe could cause this issue?

Perhaps. An obstruction could block the flow enough that it is pulling in air from under the lid or somewhere. I can't see your system from the pics.....only some uncovered pipes and I can't tell which ones lead to where. Have you inspected the valve that allows you to go from main to skimmer?

 

[rp7777]

Perhaps. An obstruction could block the flow enough that it is pulling in air from under the lid or somewhere. I can't see your system from the pics.....only some uncovered pipes and I can't tell which ones lead to where. Have you inspected the valve that allows you to go from main to skimmer?

I added a couple more photos. On the far end you I can see a black stool and a chlorine jug on top of the skimmer just a a visual reference.
also the red lines represent the path of the pipes. In 2014 I dug out all the pipe in the dirt up to the point where they turned and went under the deck. So in reality I have no idea what the official past is under the deck but I assume it’s a straight line to the skimmer

 

[Jimrahbe]

rp,

On my skimmer the hole farther away from the water is where the pump is connected...?????

So are all the skimmers that I see on the Internet???

Jim R.

 

[duraleigh]

Now I see your system. I think Jim is asking if you have more than one skimmer and, if so, do you know how it is connected to the system?

 

[rp7777]

Now I see your system. I think Jim is asking if you have more than one skimmer and, if so, do you know how it is connected to the system?

I only have 1 skimmer. My pool is an oversized bathtub at about 9000 gallons
And about 13x19 ft

 

[rp7777]

Now more troubleshooting results. I just picked up a drain king / drain bladder. I opened my 3 way valve near the pump so I could access and insert it in pipe that leads to the skimmer. I ran it for a few minutes and it blew up...product failure but only $12. Luckily I was able reach in and pull it out using a flexible small parts grabber tool.
I closed up the valve cover and replaced the handle and primed as best as I could on the skimmer line.

next I chopped up a chlorine puck(I never use them anymore since becoming a tfp follower). I ran the pump and opened the skimmer valve. I started dropping in Chlorine chunks to see if the pieces would make it all the way through. They all did. Including the last piece that shaped into a size that was just big enough to fit in the skimmer pipe. I basically rubbed it on my deck like chalk so get an almost circular shape. That too made it all the way through. I figure if a piece got stuck, it would eventually dissolve anyway and not cause any further obstruction. That test pretty much confirms there is nothing stuck in the pipe. All the pieces made it to the basket and I pulled them all out and dumped them.

 

[rp7777]

rp,

On my skimmer the hole farther away from the water is where the pump is connected...?????

So are all the skimmers that I see on the Internet???

Jim R.

Sorry but I’m not sure what you mean.

 

[Jimrahbe]

rp,

Sorry, I was just trying to say that your skimmer is plumbed backwards to most.. The plugged hole is where most pumps are plumbed.

That said, if you were able to suck tablet chunks through the pipe and into your pump, it has to be connected to the front hole.

At this point, you can just ignore my post..

Thanks,

Jim R.