Surge Protection

[TheSadClown]

Ive been doing alot of research and there are tons of options for surge protection. I wanted to see if anyone here recommends a specific type of surge protector that simply plugs and plays with an Easy Touch 8 panel. I would preferably like one that just plugs in and takes up one of the slots on the panel.

any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Those type of integrated CB and surge protectors are intended to be installed at the service entrance, where the ground and neutral are combined, not at a sub-panel.

The ET is a sub-panel.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Those type of integrated CB and surge protectors are intended to be installed at the service entrance, where the ground and neutral are combined, not at a sub-panel.

Allen, why would it matter? Obviously they would only protect the equipment down stream of the EasyTouch..

Are standalone surge protectors wired differently?

I ask because I have a surge protector that takes the place of a 220 volt breaker. I did not even know that they made a combination breaker/surge protector, or I would have installed it instead so that I could have an additional breaker. The surge protector I have takes two slots.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TheSadClown]

Allen, why would it matter? Obviously they would only protect the equipment down stream of the EasyTouch..

Are standalone surge protectors wired differently?

I ask because I have a surge protector that takes the place of a 220 volt breaker. I did not even know that they made a combination breaker/surge protector, or I would have installed it instead so that I could have an additional breaker. The surge protector I have takes two slots.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Which surge protector do you have?

 

[ajw22]

The main service panel should be the only point where the neutral and ground is connected in house wiring. The surge needs to be dumped to a close ground. The "Siemens QSA2020SPD Whole House Surge Protection with Two 20-Amp Circuit Breakers for Use Only on Siemens Panels" makes use of that with a connection only to the neutral and expects there to be the ground connection for the surge to be dumped to.

Siemens describes the QSA2020SPD as a "incoming service entrance surge protector." Gotta read the fine print.

The Siemens First Surge device can be used in any panel since it connects directly to both line wires, neutral, and ground. That allows the First Surge to dump a surge directly to the ground.

Installing the QSA2020SPD in a sub-panel will send the surge onto the neutral bus bar and all the neutral lines and basically into any 120V equipment and back into the house electrical system.

Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection - - Amazon.com

Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protection - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[ajw22]

A Wiki page in development inspired by this thread...

Electrical Surge Protection - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

I ask because I have a surge protector that takes the place of a 220 volt breaker. I did not even know that they made a combination breaker/surge protector, or I would have installed it instead so that I could have an additional breaker. The surge protector I have takes two slots.

Jim,

What surge protector do you have installed in your panel?

Is that installed in your main service entrance panel or pool sub-panel/load center?

 

[TheSadClown]

Jim,

What surge protector do you have installed in your panel?

Is that installed in your main service entrance panel or pool sub-panel/load center?

So after spending all day yesterday doing research I decided that i am going with the following.

I will install this into my Easytouch load center. It will be a direct plug in to a 2 slot on the panel.

Amazon.com: Square D by Schneider Electric HOM2175SB Homeline SurgeBreaker Surge Protective Device Takes 2 Load Center Spaces: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Square D by Schneider Electric HOM2175SB Homeline SurgeBreaker Surge Protective Device Takes 2 Load Center Spaces: Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

I then will install this into my main breaker.

Amazon.com: Square D by Schneider Electric HEPD80 Home Electronics Protective Device: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Square D by Schneider Electric HEPD80 Home Electronics Protective Device: Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

I believe this should do it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

TSC,

I have the HOM2175SB in my EasyTouch systems, like you show above..

Keep in mind these are more placebo than real protection.. Lighting does not have to come in on the power line.. When my neighbor took a hit, it also came in on a 4-wire cable that was going to my ScreenLogic Protocol adapter.. Blew out the main board in my EasyTouch as will as stuff inside the house that was connected to the same line.. It never popped the surge protector..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TheSadClown]

TSC,

I have the HOM2175SB in my EasyTouch systems, like you show above..

Keep in mind these are more placebo than real protection.. Lighting does not have to come in on the power line.. When my neighbor took a hit, it also came in on a 4-wire cable that was going to my ScreenLogic Protocol adapter.. Blew out the main board in my EasyTouch as will as stuff inside the house that was connected to the same line.. It never popped the surge protector..

Thanks,

Jim R.

I figured every little bit helps, I have my screen logic inside so the cable isnt exposed nor is the housing. Also my easytouch control panel is well protected outside

 

[ajw22]

I have the HOM2175SB in my EasyTouch systems, like you show above..

Keep in mind these are more placebo than real protection..

The HOM2175SB Instructions say:

NOTE:This device is not suitable for installation on 120 Vac single-phase, two-wire systems.

This SPD will provide surge suppression for most secondary distribution wiring, but may not suppress surges for solid state or electronic equipment from all lightning-induced or other large power surges.

NOTE:Use on solidly grounded systems only.

The HEDP50/HEDP80 Instructions have no such disclaimer.

Why the difference? Because the HEDP50/80 connects to ground and will dump surges to ground. The HOM2175SB acknowledges that it will shunt small surges to the neutral line but sending large power surges to the neutral line may lead to electronic equipment damage.

Surge protectors with direct connection to the ground are more likely to provide the protection you are looking for in outdoor pool electrical sub-panels.

 

[ajw22]

Also my easytouch control panel is well protected outside

There is no such thing as a well protected outside panel, unless you have it in a Faraday cage, from a nearby lightning hit generating thousands of volts on your wiring through it's electromagnetic fields. It does not take a direct hit.

 

[TheSadClown]

There is no such thing as a well protected outside panel, unless you have it in a Faraday cage, from a nearby lightning hit generating thousands of volts on your wiring through it's electromagnetic fields. It does not take a direct hit.

I meant from the elements

 

[ajw22]

I meant from the elements

I thought this thread was about surge protectors.

 

[TheSadClown]

I thought this thread was about surge protectors.

Well ofcourse but I just meant that the Easytouch is protected from the elements kinda like my screen logic antenna. Water is not a factor so I am hoping that will never be a cause of failure. I figured if I can help protect my setup as much as possible hopefully it will last longer.

I really want to put my pump and filter inside but im kinda limited on room and it needs to be 5foot or higher off the ground so i dont really have alot of options.

 

[ogdento]

I realize this is not the same as surge protection for the electrical system in your house, but has anybody tried one of those surge protectors meant for rs485 comm port?

Something like this (connects to ground):

Industrial RS485 Surge Suppressor / Protector

Industrial RS485 Surge Suppressor has 3 stages of protection and housed in a steel case offered with free shipping and a a 5-year warranty.

www.serialcomm.com

Most storm/lightning damaged boards I've seen have had blown comm ports... I don't get a lot of lightning where I'm at so I never bothered trying one.

 

[MyAZPool]

I realize this is not the same as surge protection for the electrical system in your house, but has anybody tried one of those surge protectors meant for rs485 comm port?

Something like this (connects to ground):

Industrial RS485 Surge Suppressor / Protector

Industrial RS485 Surge Suppressor has 3 stages of protection and housed in a steel case offered with free shipping and a a 5-year warranty.

www.serialcomm.com

Most storm/lightning damaged boards I've seen have had blown comm ports... I don't get a lot of lightning where I'm at so I never bothered trying one.

@ogdento
Since my automation is hardwired via Cat5e to my network and after reading about what happened to Jimrahbe's ET and network (ouch, very scary), I did some research and came up with this device and installed about a year ago.

Sancable RJ45 Ethernet Surge Protector Gigabit - LAN Network Thunder Lighting Surge Protection

Actually, I am using two of them. One on the line between the automation panel and a network patch panel in the attic and the other between the cable modem and my router.

I also installed a broadband coaxial surge protector/lightening arrestor at the cable service entrance, which I grounded to the utility ground.

tii Network Technologies Series 210/212

Not really sure what else I can do to increase protection but hopefully they will do the job if I ever get hit. I'm thinking that its fairly cheap insurance just in case. ?
r.

 

[Flying Tivo]

Surges can also be generated by equipment inside the house. So in theory you need protection on entry panel and any other sub-panel in the house.

 

[ogdento]

Hey MyAZPool, thanks for the reply with those adapters... I'd definitely be curious to see how those do in a storm. Hopefully they work out for you.

There's been too many horror stories like Jim's... just google "lightning strike ethernet". I used to follow the "keep it simple" method of hard-wiring everything, but since lightning seems to love ethernet and rs485 lines so much, I see wireless links as a valuable (and semi-disposable) buffer.

 

[pjt]

If I'm reading the Wiki correctly, it would be advantageous to have surge suppression at both the main panel and the pool sub-panel. Could I use a Square D HEPD80 at both locations? Thanks in advance.