Bottom of inground pool collapsing

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Esand323

0
Aug 6, 2018
130
Indianapolis
Hi,

I'm a new pool owner here and have had a stressful Summer with opening our pool. We were having a company install a new liner, but after removing the old liner, they noticed that the bottom of the pool needed repair. The bottom isn't sand but some sort of concrete (I'm not sure of the technical term). For about 5 weeks the pool sat without a liner and filled almost completely with rain water. This week it was drained and the one area was patched. However, they noticed that more areas were collapsing and hallowed out behind the concrete. They're planning to repair all of the areas and then install the liner, but I have no idea when this will be done as it took ~5 weeks last time.

My understanding is that it is bad for inground pools to remain empty as it can collapse. Is it also bad for the pool to be filled with water without a liner? I just fear that more and more damage is being done before it can be repaired fully. I believe my only two options are hoping the current company I contracted to install the liner, comes out and repairs it in a timely manner this time. Or wait until September when another company can do the repairs.

The pool is 15x30 inground. Built in 1977.

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Thanks!
 
I know nothing about this. Mainly commenting to help boost the thread and maybe someone else will see. But I would be hesitant to let it fill with water without a liner. Might be best to keep it pumped and just hope you can get someone out quickly for repairs.
 
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I have no idea when we can get this repaired. I'm having a hard time getting in contact with the company that is supposed to be doing the work. They say they will come out and they don't show up. They were here earlier in the week to do a little bit of work and told me they would be back later in the day and tomorrow. But they have been a no show and I can't get a hold of them. So I have no idea when this will get repaired. Other companies I have talked to said we would be looking at September. Been a rough first year with a pool and a terrible experience working with this contractor!
 
That pool needs a lot of work. Is the company charging you more as they find more that needs to be done? Or do you have a fixed price? Is the new liner ordered? I suspect they are busy installing new pools and don't want to dedicate a crew to your issue, which looks to me like it needs to be completely redone. It is unfortunate that it is this way but most pool contractors are busy all the time the pool market is firmly a builder's market.
 
Thank you for the replies! They are charging us more to repair the bottom. They ordered the liner a while ago and they do have possession of it.

The sides are rusted. We asked about it and they thought they were fine. I took their word on it at the time, but seeing how little they seem to care about anything else, I'm guessing this is a problem that needs to be solved. Can I just take care of the rusting myself? Sand it down and paint over it?

As long as more damage won't be caused to the pool as it sits like this, I'm strongly considering having a pool inspection be done and hire a more reputable company to help with this in the fall before closing. I'm just not sure I can find someone to actually get this work done.
 
Esand323 said:
Hi,

I'm a new pool owner here and have had a stressful Summer with opening our pool. We were having a company install a new liner, but after removing the old liner, they noticed that the bottom of the pool needed repair. The bottom isn't sand but some sort of concrete (I'm not sure of the technical term). For about 5 weeks the pool sat without a liner and filled almost completely with rain water. This week it was drained and the one area was patched. However, they noticed that more areas were collapsing and hallowed out behind the concrete. They're planning to repair all of the areas and then install the liner, but I have no idea when this will be done as it took ~5 weeks last time.

My understanding is that it is bad for inground pools to remain empty as it can collapse. Is it also bad for the pool to be filled with water without a liner? I just fear that more and more damage is being done before it can be repaired fully. I believe my only two options are hoping the current company I contracted to install the liner, comes out and repairs it in a timely manner this time. Or wait until September when another company can do the repairs.

The pool is 15x30 inground. Built in 1977.

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Thanks!
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Hmm, we had our in ground pool empty for close to 2 months and it didn't do any damage. It also rained all spring and the pool would fill up about 1/2 way with water (had to keep pumping it out). Same as you, the bottom is concrete and we were getting the liner replaced (but weather kept pushing things off). We have a very high ground water table where we live. In short, our pool sat empty for quite some time and was fine (although I have heard it is not ideal). I have no idea why yours is crumbling.
 
PoolGate said:
That pool needs a lot of work. Is the company charging you more as they find more that needs to be done? Or do you have a fixed price? Is the new liner ordered? I suspect they are busy installing new pools and don't want to dedicate a crew to your issue, which looks to me like it needs to be completely redone. It is unfortunate that it is this way but most pool contractors are busy all the time the pool market is firmly a builder's market.
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I cannot imagine a company that came in to replace a liner do that much extra work without additional fees. Liner change normally covers a bit of minor repairs/rust treatment, etc.

OP, I'm no expert, but that really looks bad condition. I would be calling in a better company judging by how your current one isn't even treating the rust. That whole pool is crumbling apart.
 

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I think your pool bottom is vermiculite - Schundler Company--Vinyl Liner Swimming Pool Construction with Vermiculite and Filtration with Perlite

The water in the pool helps support the walls. Without water in the pool the walls can collapse inwards. I don’t know what type of soil you have outside those pool walls. Wooden braces are put in empty pools to keep walls from collapsing. You have a risk leaving the pool empty for weeks depending on the weather.

@jimmythegreek or @PoolguyinCT may have some thoughts.
 
It’s very normal for vinyl pools to suffer some settling, it’s not a huge issue. They fill, compact and redo the vermiculite, shape and trowel it. Then liner goes in. Call other pool companies but during peak times waits of up to 3 months aren’t abnormal.
 
Chickinvic said:
I cannot imagine a company that came in to replace a liner do that much extra work without additional fees. Liner change normally covers a bit of minor repairs/rust treatment, etc.

OP, I'm no expert, but that really looks bad condition. I would be calling in a better company judging by how your current one isn't even treating the rust. That whole pool is crumbling apart.
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It's definitely in rough condition. We didn't know how bad when we bought the house. I'm going to talk to a few companies in the area tomorrow to get some other opinions or see if they could help with any of this. I know from the ones I have talked to on the phone, they wouldn't be out till September. But if that is what has to happen, I guess I don't have a choice.

The rusting I can probably take care of myself. The current contractor claims he will fix the entire bottom. So getting those two things fixed seems like it might give the pool a second life. I just hope the contractor returns my calls next week and actually shows up.
 
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That’s incompetent substrate; your
Contractors is on the right path, his hands are tied “as weather and ground conditions permit”

Photos depict about $7k in overages; believe me he is not happy about these conditions either..

Our contracts dictate; if a buyer terminated - contractor to be made whole. It would be unwise to retain a 3rd party at this point..

That job is “blood money” & terms will reflect such.

I’d rather knock off a few “cherry pools” than be tied to that scope. A third party will give a “take it or leave it price.”
 
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As said the bottom is toast. It's pretty common after some years and if that pool is from 1977 it's in great shape steel wise. I wouldnt bother with painting or grinding the rust it's on both sides and will come bback through. Some people use direct to rust paints right on the walls it kind of seals it in but I've seen way worst and younger pools. The floor could be patched if the rest is solid but that's taking a chance on another section having or crumbling if not sound and showing through liner later. Have to be there to make that call but it's a big job on top of liner. Whatever you are paying for liner swap it will probably end up double with the floor repair as poolguyinct posted. Nobody wants to do these jobs unless they are hungry
 
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Thanks for the replies. This has all been very helpful. Unfortunately, we didn't know this was down there. The damage was noticeable through the old liner, but we thought the pool had a sand bottom. The contractor we have is also the person who did our pool inspection when we bought the house. He thought it was a sand bottom and would be an easy repair.

I fully understand the concerns and delays with the contractor. I just wish I could know when they would actually be out to do any repairs. I can't trust their word on when they will ever be out. If they don't want to do the work, it would have been helpful to know 6 weeks ago. But I've sort of been strung along believing that they will finish it, only to stay home from work waiting for them to show up, which they rarely do.

When we did talk about the repairs last, he didn't believe that it would be very expensive. But maybe that's because they are trying to take the cheapest way possible. He basically just said I would be paying for labor which will cost a few hundred. I do plan to get our warranty involved (although I don't know how much they will actually help). If the damages to exceed $7,000, I wonder if an insurance claim would be worth while (haven't had to explore that yet). We want to avoid having to fill the pool at all costs. Even if we have to shell out some cash. We just spent a lot of money and time building a large paver patio to go next to the pool among other things. So we would be pretty devastated to come to that.

I appreciate the help everyone has given though!
 
Esand323 said:
Thanks for the replies. This has all been very helpful. Unfortunately, we didn't know this was down there. The damage was noticeable through the old liner, but we thought the pool had a sand bottom. The contractor we have is also the person who did our pool inspection when we bought the house. He thought it was a sand bottom and would be an easy repair.

I fully understand the concerns and delays with the contractor. I just wish I could know when they would actually be out to do any repairs. I can't trust their word on when they will ever be out. If they don't want to do the work, it would have been helpful to know 6 weeks ago. But I've sort of been strung along believing that they will finish it, only to stay home from work waiting for them to show up, which they rarely do.

When we did talk about the repairs last, he didn't believe that it would be very expensive. But maybe that's because they are trying to take the cheapest way possible. He basically just said I would be paying for labor which will cost a few hundred. I do plan to get our warranty involved (although I don't know how much they will actually help). If the damages to exceed $7,000, I wonder if an insurance claim would be worth while (haven't had to explore that yet). We want to avoid having to fill the pool at all costs. Even if we have to shell out some cash. We just spent a lot of money and time building a large paver patio to go next to the pool among other things. So we would be pretty devastated to come to that.

I appreciate the help everyone has given though!
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Good luck hopefully the home warranty covers it. If they inspected the pool, they should. Especially if what you said is true and the damage was already visible through the liner. I can't imagine how they would get out of this. But they do need first right of refusal to manage the repair so the sooner you get them involved the better. Your insurance will not cover this as they do not cover this type of damage (wear and tear). They cover catastrophic loss.
 
I just spoke with our warranty company and unfortunately, they only cover "mechanical" parts of the pool and nothing structural. I might be able to go through the people that did our house inspection. They are the ones that contracted out the pool inspection to the person we are currently working with (or at least trying to work with) to get the liner/repairs. I doubt they will do much though.

I did talk to some local pool companies today. I got a couple referrals, but nothing more. I was hoping to get a solid back up plan. One company I talked to gave me a referral and also had a lot to say about the situation and our contractor. They told me that they definitely don't leave inground pools empty for long for this exact reason. There was some preexisting damage, but I don't know if the entire pool was damaged prior to removing the old liner/water or if it sitting empty for over a month caused more damage. They said they have seen this exact thing happen on other pools. They also suggested that I fight for our money back if he can't complete the work and to not take the liner as any company we contract in the future is going to want to measure their own liner. I'm not sure how that works though when a liner has already been purchased but a company backs out of the work.
 

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