Poured in place coping question

[Jay Ro]

Hi,
We’re in the final stages of a complete pool patio restoration. PB used stegmeier cantilevered coping forms for our vinyl liner pool. The pool is forty years old, and the coping came out differently than we were expecting. We’re concerned with the corners, the control joints not being tooled over the cantilevered edge, and the finish on the bullnose itself.

What do you all think? We’re making a big deal about it, and I was wondering if you all agree or disagree.

 

[Moorefam19]

Hi,
We’re in the final stages of a complete pool patio restoration. PB used stegmeier cantilevered coping forms for our vinyl liner pool. The pool is forty years old, and the coping came out differently than we were expecting. We’re concerned with the corners, the control joints not being tooled over the cantilevered edge, and the finish on the bullnose itself.

What do you all think? We’re making a big deal about it, and I was wondering if you all agree or disagree.

The forms should have been removed when the concrete would have been able to hold its form. They should have “finished” the cantilever edge and of course continued the joint down.

If it was my pool I would push for a tear out. Those joints will now crack down the cantilever and the finish is horrible. THReh could use a grinder on the joints to continue them down but it won’t look the same.

 

[SBall]

Tough call. I think that 99% of the people that swim in your pool will never notice anything. Those of us that have been through a build and have an eye for detail will notice it. The biggest issue I have is where it looks like they had duct tape or something and it is imprinted in your concrete. It also doesn't look like they used the vibrator, or at least, missed spots. This is one of those "when there is water in the pool, only you (or us) will notice" kind of things.

My corners are the same...it bugs me, but trying to make a 90 degree sharp bend with styrofoam is challenging. I told my concrete guy where I wanted control joints, and a day or so after the pour, they came back and used a concrete saw and cut down into each joint, it is nice and hidden. At the very least, they need to come back and cut down the control joints, all the way out through the cantilevered edge...that way it looks like it was intentional and clean, as opposed to a potential crack in the future that doesnt look so nice.

 

[Jay Ro]

Thanks for the response. The contractor is telling us the work is on par w industry standards, and I guess I’m searching out opinions from people with no particular investment in the outcome.

I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

[Jay Ro]

Tough call. I think that 99% of the people that swim in your pool will never notice anything. Those of us that have been through a build and have an eye for detail will notice it. The biggest issue I have is where it looks like they had duct tape or something and it is imprinted in your concrete. It also doesn't look like they used the vibrator, or at least, missed spots. This is one of those "when there is water in the pool, only you (or us) will notice" kind of things.

My corners are the same...it bugs me, but trying to make a 90 degree sharp bend with styrofoam is challenging. I told my concrete guy where I wanted control joints, and a day or so after the pour, they came back and used a concrete saw and cut down into each joint, it is nice and hidden. At the very least, they need to come back and cut down the control joints, all the way out through the cantilevered edge...that way it looks like it was intentional and clean, as opposed to a potential crack in the future that doesnt look so nice.

Thanks for the reply. We aren’t happy with the finish either. Stegmeier installation vids show the builders pulling the forms and finishing with a spray bottle and finishing tool. When I told the builder, he told me it wasn’t possible and that there are other ways of pouring cantilevered coping.

He also told me that he could effectively sand out the roughness in the finish. That we wouldn’t see the tape marks or pebbles holes. Have you ever heard about that or know anyone with experience with sanding colored concrete? He called it stoning I think.

 

[bdavis466]

If they sand it the aggregate will get exposed and stand out just as much unless they are going to sand all of it.

Your coping is not within industry standards... far from it

 

[Jay Ro]

If they sand it the aggregate will get exposed and stand out just as much unless they are going to sand all of it.

Your coping is not within industry standards... far from it

I know this is true, and I needed to hear it from someone with experience. Thank you. Some of the arguments lately have become pretty heated, and I guess I didn't have the confidence that my perspective is correct.

Honestly, I've been a homeowner for the last 15 years, and this is the only time I've paid for someone else to do my work. I wasn't sure if my expectations were too high. We found some language in the contract tonight that says the company is on the hook for work that is not completed by manufacturer guidelines. I also found a Stegmeier video that show them pulling the forms early and finishing the work properly. I think we're good to go in terms of salvaging the finished product, but I sure hate having to fight over it like this.

Anyway, I really do appreciate you all taking the time to give some helpful advice to a stranger.

 

[Chickinvic]

I know this is true, and I needed to hear it from someone with experience. Thank you. Some of the arguments lately have become pretty heated, and I guess I didn't have the confidence that my perspective is correct.

Honestly, I've been a homeowner for the last 15 years, and this is the only time I've paid for someone else to do my work. I wasn't sure if my expectations were too high. We found some language in the contract tonight that says the company is on the hook for work that is not completed by manufacturer guidelines. I also found a Stegmeier video that show them pulling the forms early and finishing the work properly. I think we're good to go in terms of salvaging the finished product, but I sure hate having to fight over it like this.

Anyway, I really do appreciate you all taking the time to give some helpful advice to a stranger.

While I agree with you not being happy with it, do yo I really want this yahoo to do anything else to your pool (especially if they are angry and resentful)? I don't have any great options for you, but if I were you I would consider bringing in someone else to fix this. Not ideal, I know. Sorry for this.

 

[Jay Ro]

While I agree with you not being happy with it, do yo I really want this yahoo to do anything else to your pool (especially if they are angry and resentful)? I don't have any great options for you, but if I were you I would consider bringing in someone else to fix this. Not ideal, I know. Sorry for this.

You’re right. We don’t want him attempting the coping again.

It’s beyond frustrating that we can dump this kind of money into a project and have little to no recourse when the project isn’t completed professionally. We can’t afford to do have it redone by another contractor.

Honestly, I’m not sure what to do. I guess we’re waiting on the company owner to chime in on the warranty.

 

[Chris Guzman]

Sorry you’re having to deal with this, I had a similar experience; however, mine looked no where near as bad as yours. Mine ended up having about 14 separate cracks form before contractor even left. I didn’t want sub contractor to attempt a second try and still be unhappy, so wecame to an agreement for him to remove all concrete and supply me with forms for another contractor to repour. Stay on them and don’t accept it if you’re not happy. If they’re not willing to fix, file against their bond, no one would look at that and side with the contractor.

 

[jimmythegreek]

It looks like it was their first crack at it. The problem I see is there is water in your pool. I wouldnt attempt that without an empty pool you need eye level access to set them right. Second they disnt pull the forms. You have to know your mix and when it can hold and then you pull your forms and finish the edge. You also vibrate the face a palm sander works great on the foam. They could stone the face out a little to blend the Mark's and use sanded caulk to help smooth it or tint some mortar and cream it

 

[Jay Ro]

Sorry you’re having to deal with this, I had a similar experience; however, mine looked no where near as bad as yours. Mine ended up having about 14 separate cracks form before contractor even left. I didn’t want sub contractor to attempt a second try and still be unhappy, so wecame to an agreement for him to remove all concrete and supply me with forms for another contractor to repour. Stay on them and don’t accept it if you’re not happy. If they’re not willing to fix, file against their bond, no one would look at that and side with the contractor.

What does file against their bond mean? We had a second local company out to evaluate, and they are certainly a company that can step in and redo the work.

 

[Chris Guzman]

If they are licensed and bonded then you can look up their info through your states licensing board. You can file a claim against their bond which is their insurance and ultimately it will be investigated. If they side with you, and by looking at that job they more than likely will (that is not within industry standards) he will either have to make it right or if he refuses to, the bond company will payout and then he will be stuck paying back his bond company.

 

[Jay Ro]

If they are licensed and bonded then you can look up their info through your states licensing board. You can file a claim against their bond which is their insurance and ultimately it will be investigated. If they side with you, and by looking at that job they more than likely will (that is not within industry standards) he will either have to make it right or if he refuses to, the bond company will payout and then he will be stuck paying back his bond company.

Thanks so much. I appreciate the information and support. Wish I could know in advance how this will play out; however, you all have given me lots of to talk about when the time comes.