Opening pool, TA 20?! & other questions

[AveMaria472]

First time opening our pool after a winter close (pool installed last summer, previous pool at previous home was an intex that came down for the winter).
Here are my numbers this morning:
FC 13 (added 4 gallons of 6% bleach yesterday afternoon)
CC .5
CYA 40 giggle: hooray! was >100 by the end of last summer thanks to 3" pucks )
PH <6.8 (color was lighter than the lightest block)
TA 20
CH 50

To our surprise, the water was pretty clear when we took the cover off.
Scooped out what leaves and debris we could reach without getting in (brrrr!). Not much left in there now.
Hooked up the plumbing & filled to recommended level (we catch rain water in a cistern, no well or public water supply).
Added 4 gallons of plain 6% bleach (all we could get locally until pool store opens this morning) around 1pm yesterday and by 5pm the water was a dark green/brownish color.
Pump has been running on high steadily and the water color has only very slightly improved.

Questions...
From reading pool school, I'm thinking the dark green/brownish color means we have iron and/or copper in the water? Would Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff be the appropriate solution?
How high should I raise the TA (which should also bring up the PH)? I've read threads where lower TA levels are recommended than what's on the recommended chart.
Should I worry about CH 50?
When I did the CYA test, I followed the instructions but when I added the R-0013 it was hard to control and it went above the top of the label as was instructed, about to the bottom of the neck of the bottle. Should I retest?

Thanks in advance for all your help!
Looking forward to another great year with TFP!
Alyssa

 

[Texas Splash]

Good morning! Congrats on a successful opening. Some things for you to consider:
- Since your TA level is indeed low, soda ash will raise both the PH and TA levels. However baking soda can also be used to raise TA, then you can aerate as well (for the pH) if you like.
- Don't worry about the low CH - vinyl
- Brown water color ... probably iron. Watch white plastic items or anything else that may begin to get a tint of color. Place an old white t-shirt or something in the skimmer for a bit to see if it changes as well. Metals can only be removed by water exchange (w/ fresh water) or controlled via a good sequesrant (i.e. Magic Jacks). Since your FC is a bit elevated, it probably aggrevated the iron a bit. Let the FC fall back to about 5 or so and see if that helps.
- It doesn't sound like you have a need to SLAM for algae which is good. But if you do see a concern later, do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test first to confirm.
- Leave the CYA test alone for now. You can perform another one once the other items get resolved. Especially if you end-up changing some water for the metals, your CYA will change again.

Have a nice day.

 

[splashpad]

CYA 40 giggle: hooray! was >100 by the end of last summer thanks to 3" pucks )

What was the water temp you tested?
Did you drain any water for closing?

As Texas pointed out, (stable) PH & TA are important for Vinyl pools, as is temp.

 

[AveMaria472]

I don't have a thermometer in the water currently but I think it is still below 60 degrees.
We drained water down below the return before closing. Left a hose connected to the return to let overflow drain in a controlled manner away from the base of the pool through the winter. With rain adding water through the winter and excess water draining as just described, I'm sure some water was replaced throughout the winter. When we opened the pool, we had to refill from just below the return up to 2/3 up the skimmer. This is all pretty standard, right?

 

[AveMaria472]

I forgot to mention I put a skimmer sock on about an hour ago and it is already collecting dark green "stuff". Can we draw any conclusions from that?
I went out and took a water temp... 51ish degrees. Outside temps are supposed to be 75-80 this week so I expect it to start warming up.
How does the temp affect testing? I've not read anything about that.

 

[Texas Splash]

Water temp won't really effect much except perhaps your CYA test. You can bring a water sample indoors for about 30 minutes before going back out to test next time you do the CYA. But the dark green stuff is concerning. If it's algae, which is all I can think of at the moment, you will want to start a SLAM Process.

 

[splashpad]

I forgot to mention I put a skimmer sock on about an hour ago and it is already collecting dark green "stuff". Can we draw any conclusions from that?
I went out and took a water temp... 51ish degrees. Outside temps are supposed to be 75-80 this week so I expect it to start warming up.
How does the temp affect testing? I've not read anything about that.

CYA regant doesn't fully 'react' if less than room temp (60F-ish is the lowest we "trust" the CYA reading), which may indicate you still have high CYA

Also with your FC being over 10, your low PH reading is concerning. (FC over 10+ generally gives a _false_ high PH result)

 

[AveMaria472]

How could it be algae with a water temp of 51 degrees and with it turning this color only after adding the 4 gallons of 6% chlorine yesterday?

 

[splashpad]

Added 4 gallons of plain 6% bleach (all we could get locally until pool store opens this morning) around 1pm yesterday and by 5pm the water was a dark green/brownish color.
Pump has been running on high steadily and the water color has only very slightly improved.
Questions...
From reading pool school, I'm thinking the dark green/brownish color means we have iron and/or copper in the water? Would Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff be the appropriate solution?

Well done Do you have a local pool store that could test the water for metals? (Metals are either present or not) That is one of the "safe" tests from the pool store, as the 'amount' isn't as vital as whether they are present or not.

How high should I raise the TA (which should also bring up the PH)? I've read threads where lower TA levels are recommended than what's on the recommended chart.

Definitely aim for under the lowest advised #, that way you don't overshoot. You're aiming for stable PH between 7.2 - 7.6. The "target" TA will be different for every pool

 

[AveMaria472]

I will retest CYA with a room temp sample once I get TA and PH adjusted.
Where do I want my TA to be? As I mentioned earlier, I've read threads where lower TA levels are recommended than what's on the recommended chart.

 

[AveMaria472]

I have a local pool store that can test for metals. I need to get some liquid chlorine also so I can bring a sample when I go. I'll aim for UNDER the lowest recommended TA. Thanks for your help!

 

[splashpad]

I will retest CYA with a room temp sample once I get TA and PH adjusted.
Where do I want my TA to be? As I mentioned earlier, I've read threads where lower TA levels are recommended than what's on the recommended chart.

Just a note, with the FC over 10+, you can't accurately get a PH result (you can test PH, just don't base PH treatments on the result). But you can adjust your TA into the lower "recommended" range

I would keep a good supply of disposable skimmer socks (pantyhouse from dollar store works well too), to help keep the pollen "mess" out of the filter (less cleaning/backwashing)

 

[splashpad]

I have a local pool store that can test for metals. I need to get some liquid chlorine also so I can bring a sample when I go. I'll aim for UNDER the lowest recommended TA. Thanks for your help!

Just dismissively smile & nod when they try to sell you a bunch of "stuff" you "need", hahahahaha ... You're welcome! Just trying to pass on the knowledge that has helped us so much!

 

[AveMaria472]

Will do! hahaha So don't touch the PH until FC comes down to within normal range and then retest?

 

[splashpad]

Will do! hahaha So don't touch the PH until FC comes down to within normal range and then retest?

Yup.
I would recheck the CYA once a water sample warms up, just to make sure it's not higher than that, you don't want algae on top of everything else like Texas said! (If FC isn't within range for CYA level, algae comes to visit)

You can do the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to eliminate any concerns (or prove) that algae is present.

 

[AveMaria472]

Ok, I just returned from the pool store where they put my now room-temp water in their fancy electronic machine.
Here's what the read-out said:
FC 10.89
Total Chlorine 12.1
CC 1.21
PH 6.6
TA 0
CH 39
CYA 33
Copper 0
Iron 0
Manganese 0
Nitrates 0
Phosphates 40
Saturation Index -2

So according to their results, there are no metals in the water...
How accurate would you say the CC is? My test was much lower a few hours earlier.
And how about the CYA 33 result? Can that be trusted? I'd be very happy if that number was accurate!
And my TA was 20 while theirs was 0. Which should I assume is correct?
She tried to sell me a 25lb bucket of something that cost $27 to bring up the TA. I happily declined and proceeded to Costco where I bought a 13lb bag of baking soda for $6.99
She also tried to sell me something to bring up my CH which I also declined.
However, I did pick up a couple of cases of 10% liquid chlorine.

Please advise!
Thank you,
Alyssa

 

[Mendy48]

Please don't trust pool store results. They're known to be inaccurate. I suggest you stick with the recommended test kit (TF-100) and go with your own test results. Good job on shutting down those other chemical sales from the pool store.

 

[AveMaria472]

Mendy48,
As we discussed earlier in the thread, I only went there to check for metals in the water since my water turned dark green/brown when I added the liquid chlorine and the TF-100 doesn't contain these tests. But since they gave me a printout of ALL the readings (and they weren't taken with a dip strip), I thought I'd share them. The electronic machines are also inaccurate?
Thanks,
Alyssa

 

[splashpad]

Can you post a picture of the pool?

Ok, I just returned from the pool store where they put my now room-temp water in their fancy electronic machine.
... And my TA was 20 while theirs was 0. Which should I assume is correct?

Did they actually test for metals? The TA being zero seems... odd (though I'm no expert)
I would use PoolMath to target TA Goal/40 from Now/20
All of the #'s are lower than your personal testing, I would strongly trust YOUR results. You have no reason to misinterpret the results

So according to their results, there are no metals in the water...
How accurate would you say the CC is? My test was much lower a few hours earlier.

It is possible for it to have increased, how long between additions of bleach & the sample being taken?

And how about the CYA 33 result? Can that be trusted? I'd be very happy if that number was accurate!

If this is "accurate", you will call your CYA 40 and be good to go until the summer sun comes in
Why Monitor Cyanuric Acid? Taylor's CYA Test Instructions with pictures!

She tried to sell me a 25lb bucket of something that cost $27 to bring up the TA. I happily declined and proceeded to Costco where I bought a 13lb bag of baking soda for $6.99
She also tried to sell me something to bring up my CH which I also declined.
However, I did pick up a couple of cases of 10% liquid chlorine.

Perfection!

 

[mknauss]

And my TA was 20 while theirs was 0. Which should I assume is correct?

Typically they report 'adjusted TA'. Use your data. If the real TA was zero, your pH would be in the 5's or even 4's.