redoing plumbing

[blazer58]

Now that I have closed my pool, and taken out my pump, filter, and heater I want to plan for redoing my equipment pad plumbing.

Replacing Hayward 2HP Super pump with
Hayward SP3202VSP Tristar VS 1.85HP pump or ??

Replacing Jandy Lite2 Heater with
Raypak 406,000 BTU or Hayward Universal 400,000 BTUHeater (Have not totally made mind up but leaning towards Raypak)

Keeping my Hayward Perfex DE filter (model ECF5A, 80 gpm, Pretty sure 40 sq. ft) works like a charm so far

Is upgrading to 2” plumbing worth my while. Cost will be minimal, and the plumbing to the pool is 1-1/2”
I have read pros and cons about doing so.
Filter is 1 ½ fittings so would need to use reducers.
Pump and heater are 2 inch


In the pic, valve that is closed are my 2 skimmers, valve that is opened is my main drain.
Concerning the main drain, it goes into a T, would it be better to use a Y and 45 into the Y

Would like to put in a bypass at heater, so no water running into it when not in use (don't use heater full time)

Can I re-plumb pretty much as original (pic) or a better way ?



Thanks

 

[zea3]

If your inground plumbing is 1.5" and you are not planning to replace it I don't see that increasing the above ground plumbing to 2" would have any advantage for you. I'm going to let some more experienced heater people speak as to wether or not it is a good idea to plumb in a by-pass for a heater. I don't see a problem with it, but I would like you to have some additional input.

 

[kadavis]

Is the underground plumbing also copper? I would replace all copper above ground and use a three way valve to control my suction manifold into the new pump. Most all manufacturers equipment is now is 2" plumbing so going to that might be easier for you but you won't gain in terms of resistance. With a VS pump you can control the flow much more efficiently by going with the lowest flow rate for what your needs will be.

 

[blazer58]

From what I can tell all the underground is pvc (I checked at skimmer basket, inside return lines, equalizers) can't check main drain.
No clue why the copper was left, and yes replacing what little is there. (I think the copper was giving me a staining problem on my plaster)
I am tearing out all of the pvc that I can, due to when I closed and blew air into the skimmer line, there was a small leak at one of the fittings (water never leaked that I could tell, it was that small)

The 3-way was something I was on the fence about verse using a single ball valve for each line

The vs, yes well run as slow as I can. This 2HP was/is way to big for my pool and filter.
I also have no plans for any type of automation, I like the hands on approach with the pool

 

[jimmythegreek]

I didn't do a bypass for the simple fact of water will always sit in the heater either way. 2" is good for the pad plumbing on manifolds then T into ur 1.5 lines. 3ways r great for suction lines to reduce # of valves, on supply side I'm a fan of single valves. I'd use jandy neverlubes u never have an issue down the road. U have alot of room use sweep elbows where u can and avoid street 90s. With a 1.5 filter in between the 2" piping ur gonna choke the gains of the 2" so don't worry too much about it just make it easy for u to use ur valves and for service get that copper out of there asap. An overhead view would help if u want more direction on piping paths looks ok as is from pic just clean it up

 

[blazer58]

over head shot. I have everything cut out already and just put back in place for pic.
I had planned on moving filter back app. 6 inches towards back wall, and moving new heater back also.
Pump could also move back as needed.
This would put filter plumbing more in line with heater, and heater more in line with return line.

I have a ton of room in shed to do pretty much any lay out, and plan on using all new valves, unions, ect

 

[Dirk]

Use this opportunity to completely rid your system of all ball valves, especially PVC. They're junk. Definitely use a three-way valve on the suction-side. In addition to eliminating the added expense of two two-way valves, the bonus is a properly setup three-way can never be set to completely close off the water flow: it's one or the other or a combination of both. As is, or with two new valves, you can inadvertently choke off the pump, which is no bueno! (Unless there is some actual need to do that, like if your pad is lower than the pool, for example.)

Follow the manufacture's guidelines about how much straight pipe to run into and out of your pump.

Get covers on all those junction boxes, while you're at it! (Or was that just from you working on 'em?)

 

[blazer58]

rid your system of all ball valves, especially PVC
I had planed on using single valves on the suction side but will use a three-way
Was also going to add a three way between the filter and pump, encase I have to pump water from pool, or vac to waste.
I have a robot, and I don't think I will ever have to.

That new ball valve you see was just put in so I could air lock my main drain, there was a air leak were the copper adapter met the pvc


Follow the manufacture's guidelines about how much straight pipe to run into and out of your pump
Just found that out when researching pumps, and the minimum run will be a few inches more when I move everything.

Get covers on all those junction boxes, while you're at it! (Or was that just from you working on 'em?)
Somehow I knew that was coming, lol. Those are all killed. All of the electric, timers, ect. were in the basement when I bought the house.
I remodeled the basement and moved everything to the shed, including putting in a sub panel.
The wiring was a mess, had low voltage in with the 110, the 220 switches were fried and a few other problems.
Just no time to clean it up

I didn't do a bypass for the simple fact of water will always sit in the heater either way
I think in place of the bypass, I will make a u-shape piece of pvc with unions to fit the plumbing, encase I ever have to take the heater off line.
Cost will only be 2 more unions.
I assume unions before and after the filter and heater are ok.
Unions before and after the pump I know are needed.

on supply side I'm a fan of single valves
were would I need valves on the return side?

Still on the fence about the pump
(replacing the 2HP Hayward super pump, which I think is way over powered for my pool and filter)
I know nothing about head flow, ect, thus reason I picked the Hayward SP3202VSP Tristar VS 1.85HP.
I am looking at a Pentair VS 1.5 hp as 2nd choice.
Should never have to run either on high, according to heater min flow rates

My filter is only 40sf, and should be replaced, but it worked fine all year, without having to back wash.
When I took it apart for winter cleaning/storage the inside looked good.
I will be replacing the pressure gauge.
I have alot of work to do on pool (re-plaster, fix decking) and I can use the extra saved money
Both pumps I am looking at will work with the filter



This was the first year with the pool, and my first time having one.
I can't TFP for all I have learned, and the money they/you have saved me

 

[Dirk]

Regarding the new pump... If you ever plan on adding an SWG, solar heater controller or an automation controller, you'd want all to be compatible with the pump, which means of the same brand and "automation ready." So all Pentair, or all Hayward, or all Jandy. And not all pumps support automation, so once you settle on a brand, you need to make sure the pump could be automated. Heaters and filters don't matter. If you think you'll never automate, then this is a non-issue.

I liked the idea of bypassing the heater. I don't know what the issue is with leaving water in them, but I was told a heater can be 30% of your flow resistance (is that "head?" I don't know much about that stuff). So if you have a VS pump, you could dial it down during "heater bypass" season and save some energy costs. If water in the heater is such a big deal, then maybe you could add a brass hose bib on the heater side of the bypass to drain out the water? Your "U" idea would work, of course, but wouldn't be as convenient.

How many pipes return to the pool? If there's just one, and the pad is not lower than the water level of the pool, then you don't need a valve. There shouldn't be one, so that it can't get shut off inadvertently. If there is more than one pipe, then three-way valves can be used to balance the flow, between returns, or returns and water features, etc.

I'm not a big fan of unions, just one more thing to leak. But others here promote them. Everybody likes having them, or wishes they had them, when they're needed!

 

[blazer58]

only one return to pool feeding three eye-ball's,, no special water features (It's really just a plain jane type of pool) so no valve needed then.

I have no plans for automation, I really like the hands on approach dealing with the pool, and from what I read, if I did convert, either pumps automation system would work for my pool.

I don't think unions will restrict the flow so will be using them. If they leak or are a problem I will just cut them out.

Going to research leaving water in the heater and see if it's a problem.

 

[Dirk]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[JJoe]

Check the warranty info on the heaters as to water chemistry limitations. There may be times when your water may be outside the warranty parameters (SLAM, ascorbic acid treatment, or ??). Would be nice to have a bypass on the heater to avoid running any potentially harmful water through heater or as "insurance" against any potential warranty claim issues.

 

[blazer58]

Check the warranty info on the heaters as to water chemistry limitations. There may be times when your water may be outside the warranty parameters (SLAM, ascorbic acid treatment, or ??). Would be nice to have a bypass on the heater to avoid running any potentially harmful water through heater or as "insurance" against any potential warranty claim issues.

That was another reason I was considering a bypass.
This season I never had an issue with having to slam or add ma, but you know.

 

[jonpcar]

I liked the idea of bypassing the heater. I don't know what the issue is with leaving water in them, but I was told a heater can be 30% of your flow resistance (is that "head?" I don't know much about that stuff). So if you have a VS pump, you could dial it down during "heater bypass" season and save some energy costs. If water in the heater is such a big deal, then maybe you could add a brass hose bib on the heater side of the bypass to drain out the water? Your "U" idea would work, of course, but wouldn't be as convenient.

From the work I have done on my pool (I don’t have a heater), and the posts I have seen by people with heaters...I 100% agree with Dirk that the most energy efficient solution includes a heater bypass of some sort...especially after investing in a VSP.

As far as automation, you are right to keep your options open...I never realized how many options it opens up until I automated. Also, JimmytheGreek mentioned 2” manifolds on the suction side and 2” line to the pump...i would agree to not skimp on that suction side...even with a 2” 3-way to select between drain/skimmers.

 

[kadavis]

I guess that's why Jandy developed the VersaFlo valve on there JXI heater