Hello what is the best calcium chloride ice melt to use in vinyl pools

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LI Mark

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Jul 18, 2016
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Lindenhurst NY
HELLO,

I am looking to use calcium chloride pellets to increase my calcium levels. I have seen SWI Excel 50 has 94-97% cal chlor. Prestone which is also made by SWI is around 80% according to the tech person there. Pool Mate claims 100% but that is likely impossible. These all sound good and they are A LOT cheaper to use.

Leslie's claims 94-97% pure calcium chloride and sells 45 pounds calcium chloride for 75 bucks, 4-5 times the price of ice melt. They recommend I add 71 Lbs. 8 Oz's to my 44,000 gallon which is now at 120 ppm to bring it up to 200-400 ppm recommended range.

So my question to expert people with experience that actually use calcium chloride ice melt in vinyl pools is which "ice melt" calcium chloride white pellets is the best and safest to use for vinyl pools?

Please let me know the brands and purity that have worked well and the brands and purity that have not worked well of the calcium chloride ice melt products.

Thanks!


44,000 + Gallon Beast Of The East, 22' x 28' Diving Tank, 17' x 38' Play Pen, Offset L With 6 - 2 Ft. Radius Corners, 2 - 6" convex radius corners, Cinderella Aluminum Cantilever Coping With All Corners Machine Rolled, (NOT HACKED) Cement Wall, Hard Bottom, Tobago Pattern Vinyl Liner, 60 Sq. Ft. Hayward DE Filter, 240 Volt 2.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Off Line Chlorinator, 3 Wide Mouth Hayward Skimmers, 3 Rotating Returns And 2 Super Jets In Step In Fiberglass Step N Lounge That Gets Blasted From Hayward's 400,000 BTU Gas Heater! And One More Thing...Polaris 380, That I don't Use!
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Is that question a test? :cool: As you should / know being in the industry calcium hardness is suppose to be at 200-400 ppm - too much = scaling - too little = corrosive.

I'm curious, what is the best answer you have regarding the information and question I posted?
 
Yes it was, and it showed that you are getting your information from a pool store and not from TFP. I recommend you check out Pool School in the tab at the top of the page. We don't recommend adding calcium to vinyl liner pools. Also it is the CSI that determines corrosive properties of water, calcium hardness being only one aspect of this. It is almost entirely irrelevant in a vinyl pool where there is no finish to be corroded.

As such the best answer to your question is: none.
 
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I agree with Donldson ... no point in raising the CH in a vinyl pool.
There is nothing for the low CSI to be corrosive against ... there is no calcium to pull out of the vinyl or PVC or equipment.
 
Thanks for that, But... Vinyl Manufacturer recommends 200-400 ppm calcium range and Hayward also recommends that range with their heater. (which I have). TFP school mentions possible problems with plumbing that I'm not too worried about. Also not sure about other info I've read / heard that low calcium can allow the water to actually pull plasticides out of vinyl. If that is true it will decrease the life of the vinyl liner.

That said, who knows, but if keeping the water calcium levels at 200-400 ppm range could, or even a chance that it will help the vinyl liner last longer than it would be foolish not to keep the calcium hardness in that range.

Not to mention It certainly can't hurt anything. There is a lot of contradicting info out there so why take a chance for a few bucks on a pool that cost 50 grand...I'm not talking about a kiddie pool here...And it's a water job.

44,000 + gallon Beast Of The East, 22' x 28' Diving Tank, 17' x 38' Play Pen, Offset L With 6 - 2 Ft. Radius Corners, 2 - 6" convex radius corners, Cinderella Aluminum Cantilever Coping With All Corners Machine Rolled, (NOT HACKED) Cement Wall, Hard Bottom, Tobago Pattern Vinyl Liner, 60 Sq. Ft. Hayward DE Filter, 240 Volt 2.5 HP Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Off Line Chlorinator, 3 Wide Mouth Hayward Skimmers, 3 Rotating Returns And 2 Super Jets In Step In Fiberglass Step N Lounge That Gets Blasted From Hayward's 400,000 BTU Gas Heater :) :) :)

So, If anyone has experience using calcium chloride ice melt for increasing / maintaining the calcium hardness level in your vinyl liner pool, either with or without problems, please let me/us know all about it and include the brand name and the purity of the product you used, we’ll all appreciate it.

Thanks :cool:
 
Not to mention It certainly can't hurt anything.
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Calcium essentially never goes away in a pool.....it continues to build to excess causing you more problems.

My recommendation would be that you digest the collective wisdom of jblizzle and Donldson and not add CH to your pool but that is your call to make.

My vinyl pool has enjoyed a CH of 70-80 for 12 years so far with no harmful affect.
 
Thanks for that duraleigh, But...That is Not true: that "Calcium essentially never goes away in a pool.....it continues to build to excess causing you more problems"...You don't drain 10" -12" out of your pool every winter to winterize like we do in the northern 2/3 of the country. That's likely more than 10% drained every year, then tap water filled, doing this alone the calcium will decrease at least 10% from dilution each time. Add splash out during the season and it's a lot more than that.

Also, if your vinyl pool has enjoyed a CH of 70-80 for 12 years without adding calcium chloride I would think your pool does not get used much or at least no splashing going on. Just splashing alone will decrease calcium ppm levels every time you bring the water level up from splash out. A pool in Florida and southern states open all year and experiencing splash out all year will have much more rapid loss of calcium than pools in the 2/3 northern states.

Not sure if you have a heater but if you do you are running corrosive water through it all year with your CH levels at 70-80. As you know that's certainly not good so I presume you don't have a heater to worry about in Florida.

There is a lot of opinions and conflicting information about calcium levels in various types of pools. One thing for sure is that if vinyl liner manufacturers recommend calcium levels 200-400 ppm for their liners and could help it last longer then calcium should be part of overall water balance, and if pool heater manufacturers recommend the same as well, then pool owners should keep the calcium levels where they should be. Foolish not to. Calcium test is part of all good test kits and test strips for a reason.

I also recall that in the TFP pool school it says calcium scaling could cause plumbing problems, for those who keep adding and not testing to keep calcium at the right levels...

I'm not sure why anyone with collective wisdom would contradict what manufacturers recommend. Especially when we all know it does not hurt anything nor anyone to include the correct calcium ppm level for complete balanced pool water.

Rather than going around in circles regarding this subject I would like to focus on my original question and purpose of the post...

So, If anyone has experience using calcium chloride ice melt for increasing / maintaining the calcium hardness level in your vinyl liner pool, either with or without problems, please let me/us know all about it and include the brand name and the purity of the product you used, we’ll all appreciate it.

Thanks,

LI Mark :cool:
 
You are completely missing the point that low CH does not make the water corrosive. It makes the water more likely to pull calcium out of stuff like the plaster. There is no calcium in a copper heater. Low PH could certainly cause a problem with the heater but low CH will not. It seems that most pool equipment manufacturers do not have a full grasp on pool chemistry and often make ridiculous recommendations. If you choose to follow them, that is up to you. But you are not going to convince us to change our recommendation :)

If you would like to add CH, find something close to 100%. And you can easily search The Forum for brands that have previously been recommended.
 

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Thanks for sharing that with me / us. A lot of conflicting info weather vinyl liner needs balanced calcium water. Personally I think it does. I think you do too because you put it in to balance the calcium in the water in a vinyl liner pool! Why else would you do that...

I see your pool was built 30 years ago, how many years did you get out of the liner(s)?
 
Are you asking me or Dave? Because I don't have a vinyl pool. But in Dave's post he clearly states that he's had his liner for 12 years now with no ill effects of a low CH.

I have not looked in quite some time but I believe the recommendations we intend update would be having no minimum required CH for a vinyl pool.
 
Also note that often the equipment manufacturers are using recommended levels established for different purposes long ago in the past. For example the CH values they recommend for heaters are based on the old boiler heaters where you need to develop a layer of scale on the inside of the pipes to protect them. That is not true of modern pool heaters.

Much like the EPA recommendations for pool chlorine being based on those recommended for drinking water.
 
jblizzle said:
You are completely missing the point that low CH does not make the water corrosive. It makes the water more likely to pull calcium out of stuff like the plaster. There is no calcium in a copper heater. Low PH could certainly cause a problem with the heater but low CH will not. It seems that most pool equipment manufacturers do not have a full grasp on pool chemistry and often make ridiculous recommendations. If you choose to follow them, that is up to you. But you are not going to convince us to change our recommendation :)

If you would like to add CH, find something close to 100%. And you can easily search The Forum for brands that have previously been recommended.
Click to expand...

10-4 Thanks! Not trying to convince but you may want to talk to some scientists or even look into information all over the internet written by scientists and many experienced pool technicians which is all similar to this one I found in 3 seconds after reading your post:

[FONT=&quot]"Low calcium[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] also contributes to vinyl pool liners losing their elasticity and supple nature. In short, it’s a great way to shorten the life of your liner!! Metals (everything from rails, to heat exchanges on heaters) will corrode slowly, and you can multiply this effect even more if you let the pH of you pool plummet and stay low for long periods of time."

[/FONT]There are millions more with the same information that do not service or sell pool products either, real scientists.

Most educated professionals in water chemistry that I know of agree that high and low calcium levels matter in water for vinyl, metals and equipment as well. It's part of all quality pool water test kits for a reason. I believe people that are serious about balanced pool water include calcium regardless if they have vinyl, fiberglass or cement / gunite pools. I certainly do after investing 50K into my pool that has a vinyl liner.

- - - Updated - - -

jblizzle said:
Are you asking me or Dave? Because I don't have a vinyl pool. But in Dave's post he clearly states that he's had his liner for 12 years now with no ill effects of a low CH.

I have not looked in quite some time but I believe the recommendations we intend update would be having no minimum required CH for a vinyl pool.
Click to expand...

Sorry I was replying that to demegrad who was the first to reply to the start of this thread.

Re: Your post here Dave's 12 years...don't think he has a heater.
 
LI Mark said:
Thanks for sharing that with me / us. A lot of conflicting info weather vinyl liner needs balanced calcium water. Personally I think it does. I think you do too because you put it in to balance the calcium in the water in a vinyl liner pool! Why else would you do that...

I see your pool was built 30 years ago, how many years did you get out of the liner(s)?
Click to expand...

No clue, I bought the house 2 years ago and I was told the liner went in 1 year before that. It certainly looks new.
 
For your particular situation, you should buy the stuff at Leslie's that's specifically for pools. If you are that worried about our advice conflicting with "industry standards" then you should not be trying to find some ice melt for your pool, you should be buying pure calcium chloride from the pool store like they suggest. After all, they are the ones trying to keep your water balanced to the standards that you are holding so incontrovertible, do you think they will approve of using ice melt in your pool?

Best of luck with your pool. Those so strictly adhering to pool store advice typically need all they can get.
 
Let me start off by answering your question exactly, as long as there’s nothing besides calcium chloride as an ingredient you’re fine. Buy whatever’s closest to your daily schedule. That said, it’s not needed in a vinyl pool. By far the largest factor in shortening the life of a vinyl liner is low pH, often caused by using pucks or granular shock. A pH below 6.4 can ruin a liner VERY quickly. Several years ago a rumor started that some companies used calcium as a filler in their liners however nobody has been able to back that up with solid evidence. In our pool we see roughly the same weather as you, a heater, and a ton of swimmers. On average we see 10-12 years out of our liner as well. Our calcium level is anywhere from 50ppm to 100ppm depending on if I use CalHypo or not at opening.

So let’s step back and look why we say what we do...........
In some pools there’s two items that are in contact with each other (water and the pool surface) that may have different calcium levels. In this case the calcium will want to naturally even itself out. In plaster pools where there’s calcium present the calcium will be pulled from the surface and into the water. This will “etch” the surface. In a vinyl pool however this doesn’t occur, because there’s NO calcium in the liner. You can’t take something if there’s nothing in it, much like my bank account. In years past we’ve went as far as even contacting vinyl manufacturers to ask if they use calcium as a filler and all said nope. As for a heater, this was started years ago as the industry used dated information from the boiler industry. In some water industries they use a controlled level of calcium and phosphates to protect the pipes. This is done to keep the systems online and is checked frequently. If this layer is compromised the system could shut down. None of this again matters to pool heaters. Again the largest item that’ll damage a heater is low pH.

If you wish to use calcium it’s your call. Pick a product and enjoy. That said despite what dated information you may read you’re gonna be out $50 or so as it’s not needed. Personally I can think of better ways to spend $50........like becoming a TFP Silver Supporter. ;)
 
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Ps......I also have reread your posts and see you question why we push information that doesn’t match the industry......that’s simple, cause they’re using dated information that doesn’t always work. Just look at our chlorine levels if you want an example. ;)
 

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