gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

We went from plaster to Pebble Tech Sheen for the longevity of the finish. I hope to get the 30 years out of it.
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

I love my suction port and my Kreepy. It's nice to have something vacuuming the pool any time the pump is running (I turn off the suction valve when the kids are swimming) versus a robot that I have to put in and out, store somewhere, etc.

Those were some of my deciding points for my Rebel suction vac vs alternate solutions:

No booster pump
No tail
No hauling it in and out of the pool
No cord running across the deck
No emptying on-board bag
No limit to amount it could suck up between checking on it
Clean the filter cartridge once a year
No thinking about it at all during the winter
Cost/replacement

I'd like to save the electricity like a robot, but my reality is I have PV solar so it's not much of an issue.

Biggest downside and robot plus:

A robot can brush! If there was a $500 robot that could brush well, that'd be tempting. Leave the Rebel for daily vac's, and thrown in the robot a few times a month just to brush. Brushing is the one thing I'm not keeping up on, and the only thing I hate doing for my pool...

Which reminds me, I have to brush my pool today!! :(
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

You young whipper snapper!! I got tired just reading your post!! ;)

Can't help you on most of that, but if you're willing to dig enough to replace returns, here's some thoughts.

Consider the location of your skimmer, and/or adding another. Has it been working OK? Skimmers should be located to take advantage of the prevailing wind, so that surface debris both circulates to the skimmer opening, and gets blown to it by the wind.

With a properly designed skimmer and return design, you don't need a bottom drain at all, so you could kill two birds. Drains are ugly, hang up vac's and brushing, and can be a safety issue (entrapment). No drain = no problems. Especially something to consider if you only have one drain. There are drain systems that can address some of those issues: adding a two-drain system, or a flat grate-type drain, etc. But those solutions wouldn't address the older plumbing.

I thought I read here that black poly is a very reliable material (but you have to confirm that, don't take my word for it), so maybe just leaving it all alone is the best solution. Something to research.

Do your returns have directional eyeball fittings? Whether you redo or not, be sure you end up with those. Mine were added to my returns during my resurfacing. Deleted my drains at the same time. No regrets, the pool circulates just fine. Now, my pool is only 7.5' deep, so 9' might be something else again. But even adding a low return would be better than a drain, for circulation, IMO. The trick is to find someone that can engineer your circulation system for optimum performance, one who could determine for you if your current return layout would be sufficient without the drain, or what you would need to add or move to improve performance. Can your PB do that? Or maybe find an engineer that specializes in pool design to give your system a once over. I wouldn't think that would cost all that much, and this is not something you want to guess about, or get wrong, since it'll all be under brand new concrete eventually.

If you add or replumb returns or skimmer(s), I'd want each to run back to the pad, on their own dedicated valve, so that you could really dial each in.

There is a school of thought here that pressure-side cleaners are old-school tech, and not to be a first choice option. They still make 'em, and install 'em, but robots are all the rage. I wouldn't want a robot, so I used the middle ground. I had my pressure line converted to suction and replaced my pressure vac with a suction vac. To be honest, I didn't see a big difference, but I was able to eliminate the booster pump, which helped with the energy bill. My pressure vac (like most? all?) had that stupid tail that sprayed out of my pool and ruined my windows. Took me two days of mechanical polishing to remove what that tail did to my glass!! Look into robots. Research pressure vs suction vacs. At the very least, I'd make sure the new plumbing can be used for either type of vac, so that you have the option. Even if you go robot, I'd still install that line. Ya never know when you might need it. If nothing else, it's a convenient connection for manual vacuuming for the quick spot cleaning jobs. That all said... Warning: a suction port poses an entrapment danger if not properly plumbed (needs a special flap device), so there's that. A modern VS pump (any pump, really) and an unprotected suction port can eviscerate a person! There's no coming back from that. Like a drain: the safest suction port is no suction port.

If I was replumbing everything, I'd use sweep 90s exclusively. Many here think that idea is hooey, and that a sweep 90 doesn't provide significantly better flow, not enough better to justify their cost. I don't agree, but maybe that's just me.

OK, that's all I got this morning...

omg... I forgot to put what you said about the skimmer!!! my skimmer is absolutely USELESS because of the wind!! EVERYTHING gets blown towards returns my skimmer basically is just another suction... when they built the pool, they must not have taken into account the wind! those trees are murder btw, and I got a nice quote to remove all of them next year, so bye bye trees and bye bye all the extra work I have to do because of them. I absolutely thought about relocating my skimmer. I swear it almost would make sense of the whole pool was rotated 180 degrees, but I imagine the deep end being on that side was 100% a safety reason, so with that being said end what you said about does my skimmer even do its job, should I relocate the returns to the side and the skimmer where the returns are, or? everything you said is all very amazing! I love it! I don't really gave a pool builder yet, but it would be nice to find one and have a relationship with them. because like you said, once this is done, it needs to be done right and under new concrete! I agree on the vacuum suction as a threat. I turned it off asap. I have eyeball jets screwed into my returns and they work pretty darn good. I see what you're saying about the no drain idea also, but when I think of physics gravity etc, that seems like the most efficient way to turnover that pool. take from the deep end and replace at the shallow. black poly is darn good pipe and amazing. what sucks about black poly is the way you terminate it. the ends are susceptible to a lot due to the barb fitting and the metal clamps. rusting out etc. like 2 of my 3 suctions that come out of the ground by my pump have several patches on them at the poly to pvc joint. I really like the black poly, but maybe like you said another skimmer and no drain might do the trick. I think I see what you're saying now. instead of sucking from the bottom and putting back at the top. suck from the top and jet towards the bottom?

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Those were some of my deciding points for my Rebel suction vac vs alternate solutions:

No booster pump
No tail
No hauling it in and out of the pool
No cord running across the deck
No emptying on-board bag
No limit to amount it could suck up between checking on it
Clean the filter cartridge once a year
No thinking about it at all during the winter
Cost/replacement

I'd like to save the electricity like a robot, but my reality is I have PV solar so it's not much of an issue.

Biggest downside and robot plus:

A robot can brush! If there was a $500 robot that could brush well, that'd be tempting. Leave the Rebel for daily vac's, and thrown in the robot a few times a month just to brush. Brushing is the one thing I'm not keeping up on, and the only thing I hate doing for my pool...

Which reminds me, I have to brush my pool today!! :(

see that's the thing, I really would rather have the vacuum suction, but the reason I don't want it is because I don't wanna clog plumbing, but I shouldn't have that issue. I don't get any huge debris in my pool, and when all of these trees are down, I'll be totally fine hopefully. I did have a dead mouse and several, living, frogs in my skimmer though
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

each of my suctions run back on their own valve into the pump currently btw. they T off to the pump, but all have their own tiny twisty red or blue valve closer thingamabobjig
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

given the nature of my backyard and layout, I wouldn't doubt if I chose to use black poly again. if the black poly made it this far, a new set of black poly and ends would probably go another 40-50 years. plus, I could probably take advantage of the pipe and have very very minimal fittings elbows etc. since I could like up most pipe directly with my pump on the side. less fittings is always a great thing. there's also rigid pvc. anyone have any input on rigid pvc? given the fact that my main drain is still going strong too. my skimmer issue was probably my fault. I was pouring 12.5% directly into it. I know I'm an idiot and will never do that again, but anyway lol. you live you learn right
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

see that's the thing, I really would rather have the vacuum suction, but the reason I don't want it is because I don't wanna clog plumbing, but I shouldn't have that issue. I don't get any huge debris in my pool, and when all of these trees are down, I'll be totally fine hopefully. I did have a dead mouse and several, living, frogs in my skimmer though

I believe there are in-line leaf catchers you can put on the suction vac's hose, to stop all the big stuff from reaching the filter.

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each of my suctions run back on their own valve into the pump currently btw. they T off to the pump, but all have their own tiny twisty red or blue valve closer thingamabobjig

One of the things you should do is replace all those PVC ball valves with proper never-lube valves.

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Don't take down the trees!! Consider trimming them back, and/or erecting shade sails or leaf nets to keep most of the leaves out of the pool. It'd be a real shame to lose them...
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

oh man, I didn't know about inline leaf catchers. that's a really good idea! definitely gonna keep my vacuum suction then. I wanted to completely redo my plumbing out of the ground soon, so I'm probably gonna take your advice on the new ball valves. I'll eliminate all of my current leaks if I can dig up enough ground to go into good poly pipe with new PVC and valves. I'll have a vacuum suction again finally lol. then hopefully I can figure out what my dumb self did to my skimmer to cause that leak. finally giving me a functional pool system again. I do agree with you on the trees being nice for privacy and shade, but my neighbor brought up a good point. when you have a pool you want sun, and when you have a solar cover, sun is really good lol. the privacy of those trees is amazing though. the ones I'm talking about getting rid of are the trees in the back. the three in the back absolutely destroy my pool with leaves. the trees that I really like and create privacy don't really do anything to it, so I'm gonna take your advice on that net idea. that's a really great idea btw. never thought about this. this is my first home and pool, so I'm new to all or these ideas! really appreciate it though

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the one big thing I'm concerned about with this pool, since nothing else really bothers me about the reno, is the amount of bare gunite that's showing due to the previous owners neglect. water on bare gunite isn't good. water can soak into the gunite and get to the rebar can't it? plus the pool sat winterized for 5 years almost. I'm not leaking water though other than evaporation I don't think, so. it just worries me =/
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

I'm gonna upload a pic of what I'm about to try and explain, but I need a new fence per inspection, and in gonna see how far out to the sidewalk the city will let me go, so if the city let's me go far enough. the trees are gonna go bye bye possibly =/. maybe keep a couple for a hammock lol.
 

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Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

the one big thing I'm concerned about with this pool, since nothing else really bothers me about the reno, is the amount of bare gunite that's showing due to the previous owners neglect. water on bare gunite isn't good. water can soak into the gunite and get to the rebar can't it? plus the pool sat winterized for 5 years almost. I'm not leaking water though other than evaporation I don't think, so. it just worries me =/

It's my understanding that plaster is what makes a pool watertight, and gunite (which is the thick shell behind the plaster) is not watertight. So yes, I think prolonged exposure to water on gunite would eventually leech to the rebar. What's not clear to me, and why I'm not dead sure about water permeating gunite, is what keeps the water on the outside of the gunite from leeching in and affecting the rebar? Many pools are set in ground with a high water table, so the outside of the gunite would be exposed to water. Maybe someone else here can explain it...
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

It's my understanding that plaster is what makes a pool watertight, and gunite (which is the thick shell behind the plaster) is not watertight. So yes, I think prolonged exposure to water on gunite would eventually leech to the rebar. What's not clear to me, and why I'm not dead sure about water permeating gunite, is what keeps the water on the outside of the gunite from leeching in and affecting the rebar? Many pools are set in ground with a high water table, so the outside of the gunite would be exposed to water. Maybe someone else here can explain it...

you're absolutely correct, and that is a great way to look at it. the outside of the shell is going to be exposed to whatever gets through the dirt from rain and or a high water table. I'd like to hear from a builder on this as well because I don't know what preventative measures are taken to get rid of that, and if there are, maybe it's applied, literally, to the gunite before a surface shows up
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

my guess is, the pool builders bank on the idea that deck being properly done and wicking any kind of water far away from the pool so when it, or rain, seeps down into the ground, it's far away and isolated. my deck and seal are also shot. it just sucks to see all of the neglect by this previous owner. I really wish there was some way to know if the water getting between the deck and the pool, and the bare gunite in the pool, is gonna make all of my renovation worth it. sucks because that's gonna cost money lol....
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

I'm also 100% sure I don't have a water table either. this subdivision was man-made onto a swamp area, and the sewer system is too notch and like handles all the water and all that or whatever. my neighbor said that also, and I don't have any hydrostats in my pool, so the only thing that sucks, besides the bare gunite spots, is deck deal that's totally gone letting wetter in beneath the deck and pool. which is why I want to start this reno from outside in. deck/coping/new plumbing/fix skimmer while deck is torn up. then do the tile and resurface next

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that is amazing thank you!
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

More questions for the mystery PB yet to appear... How does one ascertain the condition of gunite? What is the typical lifespan of a gunite shell? If the OP drills new holes for additional returns, will he compromise the gunite? Or perhaps the as-yet-to-be-determined pool engineer could answer questions like those.
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

More questions for the mystery PB yet to appear... How does one ascertain the condition of gunite? What is the typical lifespan of a gunite shell? If the OP drills new holes for additional returns, will he compromise the gunite? Or perhaps the as-yet-to-be-determined pool engineer could answer questions like those.

all of those thoughts have came across my mind exactly. I'd rather not drill holes thereby reducing the risk of hitting and exposing rebar. the gunite is suppose to 100% encase the rebar which is what keeps it from oxidizing. I'd assume the original pool builder placed the returns where there is no gunite. like you said, how do you determine the condition overall? you can't just throw it through a giant x-ray machine, so are there current things I can look for that indicate the condition of this or that? say for instance with the bare gunite spots, I'm not losing water other than evaporation, water isn't seeping into the gunite, for example. except that still doesn't determine anything really. also, I'm not losing water, so does that mean I don't have any cracks? because I'd imagine a crack in the shell wouldn't have any hard time appearing all the way through two, what's left of it, plaster
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

It'd be helpful to know if that was the original plaster or not. And if not, just how old it is. If it's original, or very old, wouldn't it be safe to assume that if your shell was going to crack, it would have by now? And if it had cracked, it would have taken the original plaster with it...

I guess you're right, if you wanted to add a return, how could you be sure to miss the rebar? Is there a machine that can "see it" through the gunite?

Ha, two guys speculating about something they don't know much about. Well, me, anyway. I'm really just bumping your thread fishing for someone that knows this stuff...

:bump:
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

It'd be helpful to know if that was the original plaster or not. And if not, just how old it is. If it's original, or very old, wouldn't it be safe to assume that if your shell was going to crack, it would have by now? And if it had cracked, it would have taken the original plaster with it...

I guess you're right, if you wanted to add a return, how could you be sure to miss the rebar? Is there a machine that can "see it" through the gunite? I think we're doing a pretty good job speculating and just using common sense too lol.

Ha, two guys speculating about something they don't know much about. Well, me, anyway. I'm really just bumping your thread fishing for someone that knows this stuff...

:bump:

were completely on the same page with everything lol. I know for a 100% fact it's the original plaster, so 44 year old plaster. that's exactly what I have been thinking too and try to tell myself to make myself happy. if it was gonna crack in the almost passed 50 years, wouldn't it have cracked already? and like you said and I thought as well, I can't think of a case where a shell would crack and NOT take the plaster with it. we're doing a pretty good job speculating and just using common sense too lol. I think I'm just gonna roll the dice and resurface it asap along with the other reno items. starting with the deck and coping first. that way water is properly wicked away from the pool shell and surface. now with the deck being broken up and gone, I'll have a good idea of how much, which I'm sure there is, dirt has washed away due to the seal being toast between the deck and the coping. the deck is up against the coping on the other side too which makes me unhappy. just the overall neglect with this angers me extremely ��. since my deck is broken and the seal is toast, it sunk in a lot of spots around the pool, so I'm sure a lot has been washed away which sucks. that's another thing too. how much water got between the shell and exterior dirt due to the seller being cheap and not replacing it or taking care of the pool at all, and how much, because I know it had to have, water got into the shell....
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

just the overall neglect with this angers me extremely

Look at it this way... Based on comps when I bought this house with pool, I got the pool for free. I've put almost 20K into it (updated pad equipment, solar heater and new pebble), and still will likely have coping and deck issues to deal with before I'm finished. So I now have a "brand new" pool for $20K, with the normal pool-related replacement/repair stuff to look forward to, like everybody else.

If your neighborhood is like mine, you got your pool for next to nothing, and by the time you're done you'll have a similar bargain, along with being able to "redecorate" it to your taste...

Could be worse, at least it sounds like you don't have to demo the whole thing!
 
Re: gunite pool on recently purchased home- Resurface Options?

Look at it this way... Based on comps when I bought this house with pool, I got the pool for free. I've put almost 20K into it (updated pad equipment, solar heater and new pebble), and still will likely have coping and deck issues to deal with before I'm finished. So I now have a "brand new" pool for $20K, with the normal pool-related replacement/repair stuff to look forward to, like everybody else.

If your neighborhood is like mine, you got your pool for next to nothing, and by the time you're done you'll have a similar bargain, along with being able to "redecorate" it to your taste...

Could be worse, at least it sounds like you don't have to demo the whole thing!

I'd say I got the pool for free too. a lot of people have pools in my subdivision, but a lot done, and houses were going for more than mine and even less, so that's a good way to look at it. when it's all said and done, just the pool itself, I'm looking at 18k for new plaster, coping, and tile. around 5k for the deck, so 23k to get my backyard to the point to where I can start actually decorating it and then spending money UHgain on stuff like the actual house deck lol... just like you said, at least when I'm paying for this stuff, I'm getting a "brand new pool". because when it's all said and done, I'll have new plaster, coping, tile, plumbing, and a skimmer. everything's 100% new except the shell lol. better than paying 70k for a new pool. who knows, maybe I can list this house for 70k more than I bought it for after I'm done replacing all the drywall I started lmfao. another way I'm looking at this is, it'll cost 3k AT LEAST to have it sand blasted down to bare gunite to inspect the shell. then that drives up the cost of new plaster to probably double the price of 8k to 16k since they'd have to use more. that gives me a total of 11k more on top of my 18k. not to mention if I wanted to have someone come out and dig all around the pool to look at the exterior of the shell. that's probably another 1-2k, so I'm at 13k extra in addition to my already 18k. if I'm gonna spend all, or close to what I'm spending on the pool, on top of the pool, it makes zero sense to do that then. might as well just spend it on the pool and roll the dice. which is what I'm gonna do I think. I know you have pebble tec. you have pebble sheen you said? I think I've looked that up before. how do you like it overall and on your feet? makes balancing a pool and cleaning it a lot easier right? I'm not gonna buy a surface for my feet. I'm gonna buy it for looks, how much easier it makes my life, and how much money it saves me during and in the long run. I'll buy an $8 pair of pool shoes idc. I can't really swim much barefoot before my feet start getting eaten up on anything even new marcite
 

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