Pool and cant get it balanced

[Kreitz07]

I have an in ground vinyl liner 28,000 gallon SWG pool with sand filter. Shocked my pool yesterday due to no TC or FC no chlorine on my test strips or my as well as my 4-way test kit. Opened my pool on 5/1 pretty clear with leaves after about a week of the system up, repeating test showed no chlorine levels (assuming SWG was generating enough to get the chlorine levels up). Added 7 bags of salt with SWG off and turned it back on SWG levels appear within the normal range instant and average, however pool appeared to still ready very minimal chlorine levels. So I went to our local store seeking advise:

Store testing on 5/15:
FC .1
TC .1
Combined 0.0
PH 7.9
Harndess 124
Alkalinity 109
Cyanuric Acid 2 ppm
Copper .1 ppm
Iron .2 ppm
Phosphate 1513 ppm Recommending range of 0-125 ppm (I had pool truck delivered water originally installed in 8/2016 and we only add well water to fill periodically as needed)

5/15 - Added: Muriatic acid (16 oz) and then 20 lbs Calcium Increaser (PH balanced) - other recommendations of Shock, stabilizer and phosphate rmvr not completed.

5/16 - water appeared to be turning green and hard to see in the deep end. Proceeded with the Shock recommendation in hopes to clear up the green color (mind you it has been raining all week) - SWG turned off. Added 5 lbs of Shock at 8 pm and 12 hours later it looks like a darker green not terrible but extremely concerned. I tested 5/17 12+hrs after adding shock:

Aquacheck 7 test stips
TH OK
TC OK
FC OK
PH OK
TA OK
CYA Low (water on stairs appears greenish but clear)

4 Way - CH/Bromine Test - Bright Yellow (unsure of the amount) no change after 5 minutes in color
PH appears ok - ran Acid demand anyway and 1 drop lowered to 7.2 indicating no acid needed
Total Alkalinity added 6 drops = 60 PPM

Called help line for Pool Care questions since I went and had my water tested 5/14 since there was no chlorine reading after last week adding 7 bags of salt to my pool and getting salt level ideal. My SWG reading has been within normal ranges Instant and average.

I did just backwash my pump and rinse and have the pump running....Please help - do I just need to allow the pump to run or do I really need to add more chemical?? Also, last week we had lots of sun and this week all rain.

 

[splashpad]

Welcome to TFP!

There will be an intial "onslaught" of information to take in, just go step by step and ask questions for clarification! Once your pool is TFP-lined out, it's easy breezy!!

I've tried to address each question. You will want to checkout: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry ~ [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] ~ PoolMath this is very important for adding the correct amounts of anything to your pool!
Pool School - Getting Started

I have an in ground vinyl liner 28,000 gallon SWG pool with sand filter. Shocked my pool yesterday due to no TC or FC no chlorine on my test strips or my as well as my 4-way test kit. Opened my pool on 5/1 pretty clear with leaves after about a week of the system up, repeating test showed no chlorine levels (assuming SWG was generating enough to get the chlorine levels up). Added 7 bags of salt with SWG off and turned it back on SWG levels appear within the normal range instant and average, however pool appeared to still ready very minimal chlorine levels. So I went to our local store seeking advise:

Liquid chlorine will be your best friend! No shock, but a SLAM Process will be in order once you have a good valid COMPLETE test kit, Tf-100 is a good start

Store testing on 5/15:
FC .1
TC .1
Combined 0.0
PH 7.9
Harndess 124
Alkalinity 109
Cyanuric Acid 2 ppm
Copper .1 ppm
Iron .2 ppm
Phosphate 1513 ppm Recommending range of 0-125 ppm (I had pool truck delivered water originally installed in 8/2016 and we only add well water to fill periodically as needed)

Ignore phosphates, have you added any sort of CYA (cyanuric acid?)
FC (Chlorine) definitely needs to be brought up (which you know)

5/15 - Added: Muriatic acid (16 oz) and then 20 lbs Calcium Increaser (PH balanced) - other recommendations of Shock, stabilizer and phosphate rmvr not completed.

A VERY small amount of Stabilizer (CYA, Cynauric Acid) IS needed to protect the chlorine from UV burn-off.. Use [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] and PoolMath to figure out how much you need to add for your pool size.

5/16 - water appeared to be turning green and hard to see in the deep end. Proceeded with the Shock recommendation in hopes to clear up the green color (mind you it has been raining all week) - SWG turned off. Added 5 lbs of Shock at 8 pm and 12 hours later it looks like a darker green not terrible but extremely concerned. I tested 5/17 12+hrs after adding shock:

DEFINITELY need a SLAM Process, after you get a GOOD test kit and [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Aquacheck 7 test stips
TH OK
TC OK
FC OK
PH OK
TA OK
CYA Low (water on stairs appears greenish but clear)

Test strips are not accurate for most testing needs

4 Way - CH/Bromine Test - Bright Yellow (unsure of the amount) no change after 5 minutes in color
PH appears ok - ran Acid demand anyway and 1 drop lowered to 7.2 indicating no acid needed
Total Alkalinity added 6 drops = 60 PPM

Can you post/link a picture of the chlorine test? (be sure to have a solid/light colored background (like a note card) behind it in good light)

I did just backwash my pump and rinse and have the pump running....Please help - do I just need to allow the pump to run or do I really need to add more chemical?? Also, last week we had lots of sun and this week all rain.

You are in the right place! Get a good (complete) test kit, Pool School - Test Kits Compared
You will need to use PoolMath to find out how much to get of:
Cyanuric acid (Stabilizer, CYA it's called on this forum for short)
Liquid Chlorine (which could also be called: Pure/Cleaning Bleach @6% or 8.25%, or Liquid Chlorine/Shock @ 10% or 12.5%)

 

[Kreitz07]

The Chlorine level does not looked as bright now. I backwashed the filter about an hour ago and the SWG is not turned back on yet either. Is this test no sufficient? I have not added any CYA. Should I turn the SWG back on it and give it more time before doing anything else?

 

[splashpad]

I would recommend reading thorough:
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

The Chlorine level does not looked as bright now. I backwashed the filter about an hour ago and the SWG is not turned back on yet either.

You need to get some liquid chlorine (pool store might call it Liquid Shock) (or Pure bleach (6% or 8.25%) from a department store) I don't know anything more then what I've read for SWG, so I'll leave that for someone with experience

Is this test no sufficient?

It doesn't read chlorine (FC/CC=TC) at a high enough level. So in short, not for your needs

I have not added any CYA.

Have you used any pucks/tabs or stabilized shock?

Should I turn the SWG back on it and give it more time before doing anything else?
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Your pool needs chlorine NOW =)) (Liquid Chlorine/Shock/Bleach) use PoolMath to figure out how much is needed to raise your FC to 5 for your size pool and the bleach you can get atm.

 

[Kreitz07]

Using pool math enter FC at NOW 3 and goal of 5 with 28000 gallon pool, you are saying to add bleach.

116 oz of 6% weight of bleach? This wont hurt anything since I added the shock last night

 

[FattyLumpkin]

I second splash's advice: you need to get your FC up and keep it up, or you'll be fighting with your water until the end of time. The first thing I'd recommend is investing in a quality test kit. I have a link to the one I use in my signature. If you're going to follow the TFP approach, you'll need a quality test kit, and you'll need to post your numbers from that kit. That's the only way you'll get reliable advice from the moderators, as pool store testing is not viewed as a reliable basis for diagnosing here.

As splash noted, get some bleach in there to bring your FC up. I would also turn on the SWCG to at least produce some FC. The SWCG is designed to maintain your FC, not bring it up from near zero. You'll also need to ensure you have enough salt in your water for your SWCG to convert... you can test that reliably with the salt test kit I have linked in my signature. Strips can be used, but in my experience, they're not reliable.

Also, your FC will get burned off by UV rays quickly -- to preven tthis, you need to get your CYA up. That said, go slow based on the pool math, as it's easier to ease up to a target (70ppm for saltwater) than to overshoot -- overshooting requires water dilution to get the level down... i.e., a partial drain and refill.

Good luck!

 

[splashpad]

Using pool math enter FC at NOW 3 and goal of 5 with 28000 gallon pool, you are saying to add bleach.

In photo shop the level looks closer to 1, I'm assuming you have what's called Combined Chlorine (which is used up chlorine, not good, not useful) So Assume you have 0 Free Chlorine ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

116 oz of 6% weight of bleach?

Yes perfect!

This wont hurt anything since I added the shock last night

What type of shock? And no it won't. ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

 

[Kreitz07]

HTH Shock Treatment 5lbs - Calcium Hypochlorite 52%. So doing the math for FC is should do NOW 0 and GOAL 5 to calculate the amount of bleach to be added right away?

- - - Updated - - -

Edited: HTH Shock Treatment 5lbs - Calcium Hypochlorite 52%. So doing the math for FC is should do NOW 0 and GOAL 5 to calculate the amount of bleach to be added right away?

Sorry using FC at Now 1 and goal 5: 1 gallon 3 quarts 1 cup or 2.4 (96 oz) jugs of bleach?

 

[splashpad]

HTH Shock Treatment 5lbs - Calcium Hypochlorite 52%. So doing the math for FC is should do NOW 0 and GOAL 5 to calculate the amount of bleach to be added right away?
- - - Updated - - -
Edited: HTH Shock Treatment 5lbs - Calcium Hypochlorite 52%. So doing the math for FC is should do NOW 0 and GOAL 5 to calculate the amount of bleach to be added right away?
Sorry using FC at Now 1 and goal 5: 1 gallon 3 quarts 1 cup or 2.4 (96 oz) jugs of bleach?

You were right with the Now 0 and Goal 5 =)

Also can you add your pool, filter and test details in your signature? Makes it much easier for reference =) Thx! Trouble Free Pool


Also: Since you have a vinyl liner, you want to try and stay away from powder shocks, (calcium or stabilized) they add either calcium (vinyl doesn't need it and excess can cause scaling or cloudy water) or CYA (too much renders any chlorine you add to the pool ineffective)

 

[Kreitz07]

I will add 2 gallons of bleach and purchase a better testing kit. However what is the best time and way to add the bleach to the pool? Should I have the SWG (usually at 30% all the time but current ly off) and when should I see improvement?

 

[splashpad]

I will add 2 gallons of bleach... However what is the best time and way to add the bleach to the pool? Should I have the SWG (usually at 30% all the time but current ly off) and when should I see improvement?

If it's 6% yes.
Now is the best time, in front of a return jet (the pool coming back into the water) with the pump running.
And everyday until your test kit comes, then you can tweak it from there.

and purchase a better testing kit.

YES! Do you have Stabilizer (Cyanuric acid)? You will want to start with a target of 30-40ppm (add 75% of what PoolMath suggests for your pool size, just in case there is an error in calculations)

But you NEED to have a CYA test in your kit to make sure you don't have too much (or none) later on

 

[Kreitz07]

So I just walked out to look at my pool and now it appears much clearer than an hour ago.. I can see into the deep end and the cloudiness seems to be going away. My SWG is still turned off and I have not added anything thing since the powered shock (Calcium Hypochlorite) at 830pm last night (18hrs ago) and backwashed the filter at 10am. Should I still wait to see if it completely clears up or go ahead and add the bleach. I will be purchasing a Taylor test kit in the new 2 hours. Please HELP!

 

[linuxninja00]

So I just walked out to look at my pool and now it appears much clearer than an hour ago.. I can see into the deep end and the cloudiness seems to be going away. My SWG is still turned off and I have not added anything thing since the powered shock (Calcium Hypochlorite) at 830pm last night (18hrs ago) and backwashed the filter at 10am. Should I still wait to see if it completely clears up or go ahead and add the bleach. I will be purchasing a Taylor test kit in the new 2 hours. Please HELP!

I'd say you can leave your SWG off until after SLAM, bleach is your chlorine right now.

 

[splashpad]

So I just walked out to look at my pool and now it appears much clearer than an hour ago.. I can see into the deep end and the cloudiness seems to be going away. My SWG is still turned off and I have not added anything thing since the powered shock (Calcium Hypochlorite) at 830pm last night (18hrs ago) and backwashed the filter at 10am. Should I still wait to see if it completely clears up or go ahead and add the bleach. I will be purchasing a Taylor test kit in the new 2 hours. Please HELP!

Yes add your bleach, and then check this out Pool School - Recommended Levels
Also Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

I'd say you can leave your SWG off until after SLAM, bleach is your chlorine right now.

+1

 

[Kreitz07]

I purchased the taylor test, everything seems okay. The CYA test, I could see the black dot until the tube was full, therefore assuming the CYA is very low. Store test Monday was 2ppm. So should first add the Stabilizer to get the CYA level up or SLAM and then add the condition after? Just did the CYA test again and the entire tube was full and I still seen the black dot which means the CYA level is less than 30ppm. Do I add the bleach and then tomorrow add the stabilizer? It been raining here all week, no sun expected till Sunday

 

[splashpad]

I purchased the taylor test, everything seems okay. The CYA test, I could see the black dot until the tube was full, therefore assuming the CYA is very low. Store test Monday was 2ppm. So should first add the Stabilizer to get the CYA level up or SLAM and then add the condition after? Just did the CYA test again and the entire tube was full and I still seen the black dot which means the CYA level is less than 30ppm. Do I add the bleach and then tomorrow add the stabilizer? It been raining here all week, no sun expected till Sunday

Use PoolMath to find out how much stabilizer (CYA) Now/0 Goal/30 for your pool size is needed, put that in a sock and hang it in front of your return (the water coming into the pool). Then add liquid chlorine to bump the FC up to 10

 

[DeanP66]

No, add the stabilizer first. Put it in a sock and hang it in front of a return with the pump running. Periodically go out and squeeze the sock every hour or so to help the stabilizer dissolve into the water. It won't take that long if you squeeze it regularly. Once, you add the stabilizer, assume it's in your pool and add liquid chlorine according the FC/CYA chart and perform a SLAM.

 

[Kreitz07]

great I was impatient and added the bleach already..Guess I will see what the water test at in the morning.

 

[splashpad]

great I was impatient and added the bleach already..Guess I will see what the water test at in the morning.

How much did you add? It's okay, the stabilizer (just) helps to protect the chlorine. Just make sure you get the stabilizer soaking in a sock in the pool.

 

[Kreitz07]

242 oz of bleach 6% which was based on the pool math FC NOW 0 and goal 4. Should I wait or go ahead and add stabilizer? I have 2 lb bottle - do I just put it in a sock in the skimmer basket? or should I wait till the morning?