Getting a SWG (finally). Really need some advice.

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My PB is telling me that there is no point to get the IC60; for various reasons. At the end of the day will install whatever I want; so IC60 it is.

As for automation; as long as the SWG turns on and off with the pump timer; isn't that enough?

What variable speed pump do people recommend if I am getting IC60? I am most likely going to keep the pump I have for at least 1-year (or switch during the summer if I see its a big problem). Getting IC60 and a new sand filter is expensive as it is and my single speed pump is only 2 years old.

Appreciate all the advice.
 
If your PB keeps insisting on something smaller than an IC60, hold fast and keep insisting on the IC60. You definitely don't want to wind up having to run a pump faster than you need too, or long than you have to to compensate for an undersized SWG.
 
S Greenfield said:
As for automation; as long as the SWG turns on and off with the pump timer; isn't that enough?

What variable speed pump do people recommend if I am getting IC60? I am most likely going to keep the pump I have for at least 1-year (or switch during the summer if I see its a big problem). Getting IC60 and a new sand filter is expensive as it is and my single speed pump is only 2 years old.
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You will have to adjust the SWG % and run time during the season, I think with automation you can do that, or you will need to walk up to the SWG, but for the most part they take care of themselves. I run mine only 4-5 hours on a separate timer. I think it's highly recommended to have a timer of some kind.

As for pumps I have a pentair VS and it's awesome to have that kind of control but expensive too, usually having at least a 2 speed pump is recommended to save electricity if you have to run it long to chlorinate your pool
 
BasicTek said:
I think it's highly recommended to have a timer of some kind.
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It's basically required to have any SWG on a timer. While there is a flow switch that keeps it from generating when the pump is off, that's a secondary safety device, and shouldn't be your primary protection from generating with no flow. You should always have a timer of some sort to de--energize it when it's not running. If your flow switch gets stuck open and the pump is off, hydrogen gas will build up in the cell and (in a worst case scenario) can explode from the increasing pressure. Hydrogen gas is highly combustible, so any spark during rupture could lead to a fiery explosion.

Not saying this to spook anyone away from a SWG or anything, just warning of the immense value of a timer here, since a simple timer completely eliminates any danger.

And no, there's no risk of hydrogen gas build up while the pump is running since the water flow will carry away any gas out of the pipes.
 
My experience with a SWG has be mixed, I have had lots of problems. I don't have a real firm recommendation on make other that my Circupool stuff has been troublesome. I think a lot of folks use Hayward but don't really have a good opinion there. The size should be bigger, the less it has to work, the longer the cell will last, and their almost half the price of the entire unit to replace. I personally have doubled my cell size from the manufactures recommended sizing.
The single speed pump will be fine, the generator will make chlorine with a low water flow, you will just have to set the pump time and output to make enough chlorine for your pool.
Salt water is corrosive, a sacrificial zinc anode for your gas heater in my opinion is an absolute must. Your copper coils will corrode faster with the salt and the anode will help with that. There are plumbed inline units I have seen but not sure which would be best, I would contact Jandy and ask what they recommend. The heater needs to be bonded, and I think the anode is connected to that bond wire also but not sure. The zinc needs to be bonded with a wire though to make it work, the zinc pucks put in skimmer baskets in my opinion are a joke. The zinc will attract the stray electrical ions and corrode instead of your heater. My pool is solar so I don't have any zinc but thinking about protecting the light housing with a little zinc block.
 
I have had both the Hayward and Pentair variable speed pumps. The Hayward died after two years due to water leaking in at the top cover and shorting out the drive board. Hayward did step up and give me a new drive but I had bought a new Pentair in the mean time to replace it with which I love. Pentair is a nice unit. My Hayward is sitting in a box waiting for me to sell it.
 
Wrinkled fingers said:
My Circupool swg doesn't require a timer, its purely a flow switch. Their earlier models had a timer but no flow switch so go figure. They took out the timer on their new models.
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Ask anyone on the forum, relying on just the flow switch is a very dangerous idea. You have only one line of protection there, and if the switch gets stuck, that's it. De-energizing using a timer is a much more reliable and safer option, plus a simple $60 Intermatic timer is all you need. Most SWGs don't have built in timers because majority of pools already have timers or automation anyway.

Also, since the low amount of salt needed for a SWG isn't really that corrosive, a sacrificial anode isn't needed unless your heater's warranty specifically requires it. Ocean salt water is corrosive because the salt is at least 35,000ppm. Pools are only around 3,000ppm, which is over 10 times less salt.
 
Low pH is more of a problem for a copper heater core than salt is. To say that corrosion is only due to a SWG is not accurate.

Besides, all chlorine pools chlorine contain salt. When I first set up my SWG, the pool already had 1200ppm of sodium from the chlorine, MA, body fluids, etc.
 
Just to clear up any misunderstandings, I said "recommended to have a timer" because you mentioned automation. If you do not have automation that can control the IC60 then per the Pentair IC60 manual. "IMPORTANT! Use of an external Pool Pump Timer is Required" on page 15 in giant bold letters. SWG's can be damaged or worse if they are running when the pump is off.
 

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yes, i agree another activation or deactivation device like a timer would be safer as lightmaster recommends, though Circupool and Pentair don't require one or recommend on. The timer mentioned in a post by basictec is for the pump, not the SWG.

And in the same pentair owners manual that mentions a pump timer, they mention the corrosive nature of salt in a SWG, page one and i quote "Salt is an inherently corrosive material. While the levels of salt required for proper operation of the IntelliChlor Salt Chlorine Generatorr (SCG) are relatively low when compared to sea water and other salt solutions, placing any amount of salt in your pool increases the likelihood of corrosion or other deterioration of pool equipment and any surfaces used in and around your pool. Metal parts (including metal pools) and certain natural and man-made surfaces are particularly susceptible to corrosion and deterioration when used in and around salt water pools. Pentair Water Pool and Spa, Inc. (“Pentair”) does not represent or otherwise guarantee that the proper use of the (SCG) will prevent corrosion or other deterioration of pool equipment and any surfaces used in and around your pool. Consult your experienced pool professional, who should be able to advise you on the proper material selection, installation techniques for those materials, and the proper use, care and maintenance of those materials for your specific pool type and location in order to minimize the corrosion and deterioration that is inherent in and around salt water pools".

I would ask the heater manufacturer if their warranty will cover corrosion in a salt pool. I would not go without a zinc anode.

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here is the quote in the pentair owners manual on powering their swg

"WARNING:CHLORINE GAS BUILDUP CAN OCCUR WITH IMPROPER WIRING: To reduce the risk ofpersonal injury the IntelliChlor® Salt Chlorine Generator (SCG) Power Center must be installed on andwirded to the load side of the time clock, electronically controlled switch, or relay load side, so that it willreceive power only when the pool pump is on. Otherwise, dangerous chlorine gas buildup can occur. TheIECG should never be energized when the pool pump is OFF and water is not flowing through the unit.

Thats EITHER a clock, switch or relay, not two
 
For Joyfulnoise and other Circupool SWG owners, what range of salt readings do you folks get in a day? I just installed a new Circupool RJ45 and the salt reading varies by up to 800 PPM during the day. Also, the reading on the swg are all low compared to a drop test, done many times to verify. They are low by about 800-1000 PPM, with the reading starting near correct and slowly going down during the day. I have to have the salt level at 4400 PPM to get an average cell reading of 3400 PPM. I have talked to tech support at Circupool and they have never heard of the readings going down slowly...
And I did clean the cell even though its new, didn't change anything. They want me to return everything for warranty consideration, I think its the cell.
 
I do not have a CircuPool SWG, I have a Pentair IC40 connected to an EasyTouch automation system. I only recommend CircuPool when folks are looking to do stand-alone SWG installations because they have good prices, great warranties and they seem to be a very responsive company in terms of customer service.

As for using a flow switch to control the SWG energization - absolutely a NO-NO. If you call Pentair Tech Support up they will tell you flat-out that the flow switch is a safety measure, not a control point. All of their installation guides and technical training teaches installers to wire the IC SWG on the load-side of the control system (mechanical timer OR electronic relay). In fact, when they pre-wire their EasyTouch load centers, the SWG transformer is always wired to load side of AUX1 which is the "POOL" circuit by default that also tells the pool pump to turn on. Their flow switch is nothing more than a redundant fail-safe mechanism.

SWG's can explode because they are a type of electrolysis cell with no separating membrane between the anode and cathode. Thus, chlorine and hydrogen gas get created at the same time and it's only because of the higher solubility of chlorine that the system can safely operate. Without water flow, the hydrogen and chlorine gas will quickly build up and mix together. Mixtures of H2/Cl2 are highly explosive and easily detonated by any source of heat or UV light. There are posts from users on this forum that show SWG cells blown to bits when, thankfully, the user was not at the equipment pad.
 
All I am saying is Circupool doesn't require or recommend to install any other control measure other than a flow switch period. if you can find manufacture information to the contrary requiring a timer please share. I understand SWGs have exploded, its possible but incredibly rare. The one mentioned on this site had valves that isolated the cell which is an improper installation. You state its an absolute no no to control a swg with a flow switch only, than circupool is wrong and the Circupool techs are lying? I asked the question with Circupool as my previous model had a timer, they stated it was not required. I get another level of safety wont hurt. The Circupool installation manual states "when used with a variable speed or other electronically controlled pumps, you may wish to wire the control module directly to your power source. This will allow the pump to determine when the cell is energized or dormant by activation of the flow switch"
 
From the manual for the Circupool RJ series - page 8

"Wiring to Power Source: The Control Module comes with an un-terminated Power Cord (AC Input) which is typically connected to an external timer, which will turn the pump and Control Module on and off together. Have the Control Module wired to the load side of the timer by a qualified person."

Diagram - page 4 shows connected to load side of timer also.

External timer
wired to load side of timer (which is the side that gets turned on/off by the timer)

Didn't see any reference to use with a variable speed pump. Care to share a document that so states?
 
Let me be perfectly clear here - It is your pool and you can operate it however you choose. TFP’s approach is always to teach and recommend the safest methods. How you choose to use that information is entirely up to you. But, how that information is presented here on the forum is not up for debate. When it comes to safe-practices, there are no half-measures.

And Yes, I would argue that CircuPool’s recommendations, as you’ve stated them, are wrong and inherently more dangerous. A flow switch can fail. It can fail in the open state and the user is safe. It can fail in the closed state and then the user is potentially in harms way. The only correct installation that TFP recommends is to design the system so that the SWG can only be energized when the pump is energized. A flow switch is also recommended as an additional safety measure as one could have the SWG energized and the pump could fail, or plumbing could fail, and flow could cease. That is also a situation where a catastrophic explosion could occur. When both a flow switch and electrical union of the pump and electronics are present, then that is the safest setup.
 
My physically printed manual says what proavia said, except it does mention about installing on the line side if you have a VSP. I would say they are flat out wrong in that regard, because as Matt said, you never want to rely on just one system to protect you. If you have a VSP, TFP recommends that you have your SWG (any brand) on a timer to de-energize it when the pump is off, and to start your pump at a low RPM, and ramp it up little by little until the flow switch activates. This lets you know the minimum speed you can run your VSP and be able to also produce Chlorine. It also gets around the only issue with a SWG and a VSP, that the VSP can be set to low to activate the flow switch.
 
I’m with the majority here. Never trust the flow switch, I’ve seen too many flow switch failures.

What is the OP’s issue with wiring to a timer? Is there an issue with the current electrical setup preventing this?

Two of the most important safety devices for a swimming pool are proper bonding to prevent electrocution, and controlling SWG power at the line source to prevent catastrophic cell failures.

As mentioned, the OP is free to do as they wish, regardless of our recommendations for safety.
 
domct203 said:
I’m with the majority here. Never trust the flow switch, I’ve seen too many flow switch failures.

What is the OP’s issue with wiring to a timer? Is there an issue with the current electrical setup preventing this?

Two of the most important safety devices for a swimming pool are proper bonding to prevent electrocution, and controlling SWG power at the line source to prevent catastrophic cell failures.

As mentioned, the OP is free to do as they wish, regardless of our recommendations for safety.
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It wasn't the OP, we're a bit hijacked into that topic here
 
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proavia said:
From the manual for the Circupool RJ series - page 8

"Wiring to Power Source: The Control Module comes with an un-terminated Power Cord (AC Input) which is typically connected to an external timer, which will turn the pump and Control Module on and off together. Have the Control Module wired to the load side of the timer by a qualified person."

Diagram - page 4 shows connected to load side of timer also.

External timer
wired to load side of timer (which is the side that gets turned on/off by the timer)

Didn't see any reference to use with a variable speed pump. Care to share a document that so states?
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Keep reading, the paragraph just below your quote, page 8, bottom of the page. I don't want to argue and this is my last post on this. I did ask Circupool and they confirmed what I have been saying. I do agree again that another backup or redundant safety device is smart, that is why I called them and ask that question specifically. And yes, that is why I use trouble free pools forum, often get better info than pool stores and maybe the manufactures? I think it is important to use the manufactures advice and temper that with a grain of salt
 

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