Teribble's Vegas OB Pool / Spa

[Dirk]

Sooo many options. There was another post here, just this morning, warning against 3'-6" as too shallow. Now I gotta go check...... Huh, I'm at 42". I've never given that any thought before. My littles struggled at that depth when they were younger. But two of three are fish now, and tall enough, so only the little little has to get past that hurdle. I'm trying to remember if I've ever thought I needed more depth there... I don't think so. 'nother tough one.

I kinda get the appeal of a sport pool, but I like a deep end. I like to dive in, and swoop down to the deepest part, linger a bit and slowly float back up. Very refreshing on a hot day. Kids like it, too. I have a jumping rock that they and their friends use a lot, and that needs at least 6'.

It would be fun to be able to play volley ball or badminton in a pool, though. I think my shallow end is wide enough for badminton. I'm looking into Watermelon Ball, so that might be the solution for me, and the best of both!

Gee, absolutely no help at all today! Keep the updates coming!

 

[teribble1]

We've decide we're not going to do a sports style pool. I also love to jump into the pool and enjoy swimming around in the deep end. We're going to go with a 4' shallow end, 5' middle and 6' deep end. I think for out family that will be the most enjoyable. I like the idea of a jumping rock but I always find something to jump off of into the pool even tho it's not always a good idea.

 

[Dirk]

We've decide we're not going to do a sports style pool. I also love to jump into the pool and enjoy swimming around in the deep end. We're going to go with a 4' shallow end, 5' middle and 6' deep end. I think for out family that will be the most enjoyable. I like the idea of a jumping rock but I always find something to jump off of into the pool even tho it's not always a good idea.

That sounds perfect. I gave it some more thought. I like to swim the length of my pool underwater. I recall that in my 3.5 shallow end I break the surface a bit, with my feet mostly, as I'm kicking, 'cause I can't quite stay deep enough. Another 6" would mean I could more easily stay underwater the whole way. Not really an issue, but 4' sounds like a good depth to me.

 

[teribble1]

While doing some more research on infloor / pop ups I found this. Seems like some good info and makes sense. I sure like the idea of infloor and it could be worth the extra cost... decisions, decisions.

When the heat and chemicals are introduced at the bottom of the pool they get thoroughly mixed up long before they reach the surface.
This results in lower heat and chemical losses and lower costs over the lifetime of the pool.
A study carried out at the Arizona State University concluded that the average swimming pool owner with in-floor cleaning could save up to:-

• 30% on chemical usage
• 30% on overall power consumption
• and 40% on heating expenses.
• [h=2]Most pool builders just see In-floor cleaning as an expensive extra that they can charge a ton of money for![/h]At Blankpools we see it as necessary "must-have" equipment - because your pool will be safer in health terms, and much cheaper to run.

 

[Dirk]

While doing some more research on infloor / pop ups I found this. Seems like some good info and makes sense. I sure like the idea of infloor and it could be worth the extra cost... decisions, decisions.

When the heat and chemicals are introduced at the bottom of the pool they get thoroughly mixed up long before they reach the surface.
This results in lower heat and chemical losses and lower costs over the lifetime of the pool.
A study carried out at the Arizona State University concluded that the average swimming pool owner with in-floor cleaning could save up to:-

• 30% on chemical usage
• 30% on overall power consumption
• and 40% on heating expenses.
• Most pool builders just see In-floor cleaning as an expensive extra that they can charge a ton of money for!
  
  At Blankpools we see it as necessary "must-have" equipment - because your pool will be safer in health terms, and much cheaper to run.

"the average swimming pool owner with in-floor cleaning could save up to"... Could save? And compared to what?

I would sure like to know how they came up with those numbers. Sounds like a sales pitch, more than a fact sheet, with maybe some creative stat-juggling?

Not disputing, just questioning.

I've only used pressure and suction vacs, and have only read about robots and in-floor.

Leaving the pressure-suction-robot debate aside...

A robot crawls over virtually every square inch of your surface. And it brushes that surface, not just blows water across it. And it'll scrub your tile, too, if you use that setting. It's throwing a lot of water out of it, everywhere it goes, to do what it does (suction and exhaust). And it does all that without using the main pump.

So I would love to see a direct comparison analysis to see just how a handful of permanently placed jets, on the bottom (or anywhere in your pool, for that matter, even dozens of jets) could clean as well, circulate as well, and cost less to run than a robot! How, exactly, does an in-floor system get rid of leaves laying on the bottom? Or small pieces of sandstone coping? Or sand from the beach or dirt from the garden?

Add to that the sheer amount of plumbing pipes, joints, manifolds, control systems, etc involved... Yikes. Not for me. I use suction side, my pool is clean, and at $600 the thing is almost disposable should it wear out. There are things about a robot that, for me, are a deal breaker, but I won't argue that a robot would clean my pool better than my vac. Of all the choices available, in-floor would be at the bottom of my list.

I would love to hear others' take on it. Anybody used both in-floor and robot? Maybe even in the same pool? That can give the OP a direct experience comparison?

 

[EPCompX2]

While doing some more research on infloor / pop ups I found this. Seems like some good info and makes sense. I sure like the idea of infloor and it could be worth the extra cost... decisions, decisions.

When the heat and chemicals are introduced at the bottom of the pool they get thoroughly mixed up long before they reach the surface.
This results in lower heat and chemical losses and lower costs over the lifetime of the pool.
A study carried out at the Arizona State University concluded that the average swimming pool owner with in-floor cleaning could save up to:-

• 30% on chemical usage
• 30% on overall power consumption
• and 40% on heating expenses.
• [h=2]Most pool builders just see In-floor cleaning as an expensive extra that they can charge a ton of money for![/h]At Blankpools we see it as necessary "must-have" equipment - because your pool will be safer in health terms, and much cheaper to run.

teribble1,
In my previous house (Henderson NV) we built a pool and installed an in floor system (A & A) paired with a Venturi skimmer. Our plans were sent to A & A and they placed the pop-ups per their engineering. In the 8 years we had that pool there were no issues, kept the pool clean. I miss that pool, current pool needs vacuuming every week.
My 2 cents

 

[kimkats]

Ahhhhhhhhhh but here at TFP we do NOT intro the chemicals at the bottom of the pool. We pour them slowly in front of a return with the pump on then brush that area to make sure none of it puddles on the floor. We do NOT pour any into the skimmer as we do not want it to go through the pump and other equipment.

Now the heating? I can see the infloor being helpful BUT I do worry about people "kicking" them or tripping over them if they are raised at all.

Now sure about the power consumption so cannot talk about that part of it.

Kim

 

[Dirk]

teribble1,
In my previous house (Henderson NV) we built a pool and installed an in floor system (A & A) paired with a Venturi skimmer. Our plans were sent to A & A and they placed the pop-ups per their engineering. In the 8 years we had that pool there were no issues, kept the pool clean. I miss that pool, current pool needs vacuuming every week.
My 2 cents

How does in-floor get a soggy leaf off the bottom? What about a flake of sandstone? A dusting of yard dirt or heavy sand? (All of which I get in my pool.)

Does it just push things into the water column for the skimmer? If so, I just can't wrap my head around how that would be better at cleaning than some sort of vacuum...

Would you be willing to describe the system? The manifold, the control system? I've seen pictures of them. Are they as complicated as they seem?

- - - Updated - - -

Ahhhhhhhhhh but here at TFP we do NOT intro the chemicals at the bottom of the pool. We pour them slowly in front of a return with the pump on then brush that area to make sure none of it puddles on the floor. We do NOT pour any into the skimmer as we do not want it to go through the pump and other equipment.

Now the heating? I can see the infloor being helpful BUT I do worry about people "kicking" them or tripping over them if they are raised at all.

Now sure about the power consumption so cannot talk about that part of it.

Kim

Right, so any time you're heating your pop ups would be up? How do you play Watermelon Ball and heat your pool at the same time?!? Minus 2 points every time you stub your toe? My heater goes on and off all day long, all summer long.

And while I'm just making stuff up... there's noooo way an in floor would be cheaper to run than a robot. How could it?

 

[EPCompX2]

How does in-floor get a soggy leaf off the bottom? What about a flake of sandstone? A dusting of yard dirt or heavy sand? (All of which I get in my pool.)

Does it just push things into the water column for the skimmer? If so, I just can't wrap my head around how that would be better at cleaning than some sort of vacuum...

Would you be willing to describe the system? The manifold, the control system? I've seen pictures of them. Are they as complicated as they seem?

They push leaves and dirt to the drains, which were designed to allow leaves through. At the equipment there was a leaf canister before the pump. There were 6 zones with 4-5 pop-ups. The pop-ups on stairs or benches were lower pressure.
aamfg.com

 

[teribble1]

I found this on here.
https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/147191-In-floor-cleaning-Worth-the-money

I think if you have a system that is installed correctly it should function good but still not sure it's worth the extra money and possible issues later down the road.

 

[Dirk]

They push leaves and dirt to the drains, which were designed to allow leaves through. At the equipment there was a leaf canister before the pump. There were 6 zones with 4-5 pop-ups. The pop-ups on stairs or benches were lower pressure.
aamfg.com

So basically it just automatically sweeps junk to a vacuum that doesn't move around. And if it breaks down, most of the system is buried under a swimming pool? I'm out...

 

[MinerJason]

So basically it just automatically sweeps junk to a vacuum that doesn't move around. And if it breaks down, most of the system is buried under a swimming pool? I'm out...

More or less, yes. The only parts buried are the return and drain pipes, but virtually every concrete shell pool has buried return and drain pipes. Yes, there are more pipes and the plumbing is a bit more complicated, but the only moving parts are the pop up heads and the multiport valve at the equipment pad. My dad built a pool with an in floor cleaning system about 15 years ago and has been very happy with it. It took him a few months to get everything tuned, but it works great, and he hasn't had any repair or maintenance issues other than replacing a couple of the heads and replacing a plastic gear on the multiport valve assembly.

That said, I don't think I'd install one if I were building a pool. The extra expense would be hard to justify for me, and I'm a big proponent of keeping things simple.

 

[Green Goblin]

"Anybody used both in-floor and robot?"

I don't really qualify on this, but I'll share my experience. I'm not in the industry. I've owned and cared for some pools, not a lot, just a few.

Looks like you're building a 14 x 28 rectangle with some features thrown in. I had a 14 x 28 rectangle with no features, and the robot (a tiger shark) was fantastic in it. Cleaning was easy. I didn't have a concern about having a cable or device in the pool because I only ran the thing a few hours a week and kept it out of the pool when not in use. I got the robot for around $1k with a storage caddy that helps move it around. I had it for a little over 2 years before I sold that house, and the robot went with it (buyer asked for it). It was a great robot and I was very happy with it. Obviously it would wear out over time, my guess would be 4-5 years, MOL, and replacing it would be a few clicks and a new one shows up at the door.

An in-floor system obviously would cost more upfront, and I don't know about the long term costs of such a system. 30 years ago I had a built in cleaner that was so different from what people get today that it isn't a fair comparison, but ultimately we had to have that system removed, and that isn't cheap. But a lot changes in 30 years. I recently looked at buying a house with a pool with an in floor cleaner and the seller's agent had to come over before every showing to take care of leaves-- and not just floating leaves, sunk ones too, because the in floor cleaner couldn't do enough with those. I think I'd be mad if I paid several grand for an in floor system that meant I still had to clean the pool myself a lot. Leaves may not be your issue in Las Vegas though.

We are presently in the process of getting bids for our pool build planned for this summer, so I've looked into the in-floor cleaners a lot. Certainly there are people happy with them. I get the feeling that folks out in the desert southwest like them more, that's just an impression I get, and maybe that makes some sense in that the problems there may be more sand than leaves, just speculating here. I decided against it for me-- too complex, I want simplicity that I can understand and fix easily-- you ever seen the medusa's head of pipes that it takes to supply an in-floor system?

Also, for me... pool stuff breaks, it just does. For the most part, again for me maybe not everyone, fixing broken pool stuff seems to come down to me personally fixing it, or paying someone else to replace it with a new item. I don't have much luck with being able to pay someone to fix pool things for me. I can get a new robot quickly and easily myself, without having to go through a local pool company or store. In floor cleaners need servicing from time to time as well, and that didn't seem as simple to me.

Lastly, I'd love to read that ASU study on the in floor cleaners saving a bunch of money. As some have stated, compared to what? There are studies that show that using a robot is far more efficient than a suction side or pressure side cleaner, and cost way less to operate, but when I started using my robot I noticed basically no difference. There's a perfectly good reason for this though-- I had a solar system, and to pump water through my solar system efficiently, I couldn't run the VS pump at a super low speed, and pumping slowly is one of the assumptions that needs to be met for a robot to save you a bunch of money.

So even if in theory a floor system will save the mythical average pool owner money, it may not actually save you any money depending on how you use your pool. So I wouldn't get one thinking that it would save me money, but I can see how someone would get one to save time and effort in cleaning the pool. For me it wasn't worth it, but for others it has been.

 

[teribble1]

I've been so busy with everything in life that I called J @ mypoolplans.com and I'll be working with him on my plans. I was shocked and very happy to find out that I've met him once before and glad he has a huge amount of knowledge in the O/B and PB world. Makes me feel a lot better about using him for my plans and he works with A&A for infloor cleaners which is another plus. I'm going to see what the cost of the system will be and compare the prices and options then. If the infloor isn't going to be a huge price tag it could be a nice option to have and could help with the Vegas dust. I don't think i'll have a leaf problem in my pool and the infloor should be able to handle the dust but I sure like those new robots too. Once I get the plans back from J it'll be time to get the bids going. I'm super excited to get this project going and see some progress.

 

[Dirk]

Will there be any renders of the pool and yard? We love the renders!

 

[teribble1]

I not sure yet if there will be a render of it. I need to talk to J and see what his complete process is. I told him I would send him the drawing I created in AutoCad and we would go from there. I sure love seeing a rendering too

 

[Big Will]

Terrible jay will get you renders and plumbing plans and everything and even blow it up for the engineers and give you the larger copy to take to the city!!!! It was a good move going to him and it will same you a lot of time and thought and he will make as many changes as you need. Look at the first page or two of my thread for examples or we can still meet this weekend for copies.
As far as the Infloor you will probably be around $3500-$4k for a owner build to do it which I looked into. The only reason I didn’t is because my neighbor has a beautiful pool and he said you still have to brush and there is always dead spots and it’s the same thing I heard from everyone else. Funny thing is since I built my pool and use the “Hulk” which is my dolphin my neighbor comes and borrows he hulk before he has any parties to make sure his pool is really clean.
So honestly it really boils down to if you really want it then get it but the infloor will have its own set of positives and negatives just as any other machine but the robot is just a whole lot cheaper and you can set it up to go off multiple times a week if you wish so there is very minimal brushing involved lol.

 

[teribble1]

Terrible jay will get you renders and plumbing plans and everything and even blow it up for the engineers and give you the larger copy to take to the city!!!! It was a good move going to him and it will same you a lot of time and thought and he will make as many changes as you need. Look at the first page or two of my thread for examples or we can still meet this weekend for copies.
As far as the Infloor you will probably be around $3500-$4k for a owner build to do it which I looked into. The only reason I didn’t is because my neighbor has a beautiful pool and he said you still have to brush and there is always dead spots and it’s the same thing I heard from everyone else. Funny thing is since I built my pool and use the “Hulk” which is my dolphin my neighbor comes and borrows he hulk before he has any parties to make sure his pool is really clean.
So honestly it really boils down to if you really want it then get it but the infloor will have its own set of positives and negatives just as any other machine but the robot is just a whole lot cheaper and you can set it up to go off multiple times a week if you wish so there is very minimal brushing involved lol.

what about your seating areas? Does the robot clean them? I'm just worried about my wet deck always being dusty. I know a return there will help but that's one thing infloor does good with. What do you do in your spa for cleaning?

 

[teribble1]

Got my plans sent over to the structural engineer so things are slowly moving. Super bummed that I missed out on saving some money on the excavation. The lot next to my house was empty, which they could have used to get the dirt out is now under construction. They started digging the footings yesterday but I still have 9'+ access to my backyard. Decided no infloor cleaning so I added a sweep so I have options for a robot or suction side cleaner. I can't wait to get this thing going so I better nail down an excavator soon.

 

[IMAZ1218]

I have the same robot as Will. You will have to sweep the wet deck as the robot will not clean it. It’s not deep enough. I also have a large bench seat in my pool that runs the length of one of the sides. Sometimes the robot gets it all, sometimes it doesn’t. But sir me to sweep both those areas takes about one minute. I’m very happy with the robot and it does a great job with a couple limitations. My kids named ours Wally and maybe if it would have gotten a more masculine name like “Hulk” it would be happier and get that bench more often.