Standard vs. Variable speed pump

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B

Bhebert449

0
Jul 16, 2017
60
Beaumont TX
We are scheduled to start our pool project next week and I have some questions about the pump selection. Our current plan calls for a Pentair Whisperflo #011774 which is a single speed 2hp pump. It will run the filtration and sanitation (chlorinator) We are using a Pentair IC 40 salt cell.

I understand the argument for a VS pump for energy savings but my question is whether I would realize any energy savings considering the salt cell requires a certain level of flow to product chlorine. I expect to have to run the pump for 8 hrs per day to get the proper level of chlorine needed.

Thoughts?
 
The flow rate to close the flow switch on your IC40 is far less than your single speed pump will put out. The Whisperflo is an energy hog and noisy.

At least consider a two speed pump. Though a VS is the best with the ability to ramp down for chlorine generation and general circulation and then ramp up to activate your bubblers, spa, etc. A single VS pump should be able to cover all your needs. Easier if you add automation.

Take care.
 
B,

I think you are making a mistake by not using your EasyTouch to control the 3 HP IntelliFlo... The EasyTouch, IntelliFlo, and IC40 were all made to play together nicely with ScreenLogic.

For reference, I can run my IntelliFlo at 1,200 RPM (plenty to close the flow switch) 24/7 for less than $20 bucks a month.. I suspect it will cost you that amount to run your single speed pump for a week.

I also think your pump run time of 8 hours is a little shy on what it will really take. Your IC40 will generate about .3 ppm of FC per hour. Most pools use 2 to 4 ppm per day. Using 3 ppm per day, you will need to run your SWCG at 100% for ten hours... if your actual FC use is higher, the only thing you can do is increase your pump's run time.

It is your money and your choice, but you asked our opinion... My opinion is that it should be a crime to install a single-speed pump... :p

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
My combination of the IC40 and the Intelliflo has made my pool maintenance a breeze! I run the pump 24 hours a day at the lowest possible speed to keep the chlorinator working - usually about 1200 RPMs. The pool has been perfect all summer long given the constant stream of chlorine (usual setting on the Intellichlor is 20%). At 1200 RPMs, it only uses about 100 watts or so. It's a great combo!
 
If this is a new pool build, then buying a VSP now makes much more sense. The incremental increase in cost going from a single-speed to a VSP is in the noise of the overall project budget... you're talking a few hundred bucks price difference at most especially if any utility rebates are available. You will easily recover that price difference over the life of the pump. Also, SWG's produce a fixed amount of chlorine no matter what the flow rate is and so you want to run the chlorinator at just above the lowest possible flow rate to maximize energy efficiency.

Think of it like this - a 2HP whisperflo consumes something near 2kW of electrical power. An IntelliFlo running at 1200 RPM (more than enough to close the flow switch on an IC40 unless you have some crazy head loss due to bad plumbing design) will use somewhere around 400-500W of electrical power. You can expect to get many, many years of life out of the IntelliFlo (I'm on year 4 of mine and it is working like a charm). The pump will pay for itself.

And, I can speak from experience as I have both an IntelliFlo and a 3HP WhisperFlo (for the waterfall). The WhisperFlo, in spite of it's name, makes A LOT more noise running than my IntelliFlo.

Finally, the energy department and pool industry have just approved new guidelines to phase out all single-speed pumps over 1HP by 2020. So the nature of the pool equipment industry is changing and I wouldn't want be stuck with a pump that is no longer supported.
 
What model Intelliflo do you recommend? I agree with the automation we are getting we should take advantage. My PB, for some reason, is not a believer in VS pumps. What should I expect for cost difference between the Whisper Flo and Intelliflo?
 
Check online pricing. Unfortunately pricing is going to be controlled by your PB as they will always add huge markups.

Sadly a lot of old school builders just don’t understand how VSPs work or how to install them and only want to build what they have been building for years. But hey, it’s your money and your pool. After it is built, you’ll never see the PB again and you’re the one that has to live with it. So get what YOU want and not what your PB says you want. Who’s the boss, him or you??
 
Bhebert449 said:
What model Intelliflo do you recommend? I agree with the automation we are getting we should take advantage. My PB, for some reason, is not a believer in VS pumps. What should I expect for cost difference between the Whisper Flo and Intelliflo?
Click to expand...

That's interesting because most Texas PB's seem to no like SWG and you have one of those.

If you want more data run this calculator

Calculators - Residential Pool Pump Energy Savings Calculator - Pentair

Bottom line is a VSP pump saves electricity. Think of it as going from an incadecent bulb to LED just on a larger scale.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Check online pricing. Unfortunately pricing is going to be controlled by your PB as they will always add huge markups.

Sadly a lot of old school builders just don’t understand how VSPs work or how to install them and only want to build what they have been building for years. But hey, it’s your money and your pool. After it is built, you’ll never see the PB again and you’re the one that has to live with it. So get what YOU want and not what your PB says you want. Who’s the boss, him or you??
Click to expand...

Matt....you mentioned that some PB don't understand VSP's and "how to install them". I'm getting ready to build a pool and my pool builder is not big on VS....says he just can't find the cost savings. I'm still planning on going with one. But is there anything I should make sure I relay to him concerning how they are installed vs. single speeds? I was thinking installation would be quite similar.

Thank you!
 

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This doesn't apply to you in warmer climates but my PB is installing the VSP so it can easily be removed and taken in for the winter. He said they are more susceptible to getting water in them and freezing if left out in the elements for the winter.
 
rawb said:
Matt....you mentioned that some PB don't understand VSP's and "how to install them". I'm getting ready to build a pool and my pool builder is not big on VS....says he just can't find the cost savings. I'm still planning on going with one. But is there anything I should make sure I relay to him concerning how they are installed vs. single speeds? I was thinking installation would be quite similar.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Should have been more precise - plumbing installation should be the same (make sure they use unions on the suction and pressure sides so the pump can be easily removed).

Most PBs don’t know (or care to learn) how to program them and integrate them into an automation system. Comments like “I can’t find the savings” sounds more like “I’m to lazy to learn” to me.

The savings are real, sadly too many PBs don’t want to change with the times.
 
Bhebert449 said:
What model Pentair pumps should I request? Do they make multiple models VS and dual speed pumps? My pool is around 25K Gallons and will have an attached spa.
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You want whatever the latest IntelliFlo is, see the Pentair website - IntelliFlo VSF - Efficient Pool and Spa Pumps - Pentair The IntelliFlo is a 3HP pump but it runs at lower power depending on the set speed. SO think of it as a pump that allows you to choose your horsepower. One IntelliFlo can easily run a pool with the bubblers (they should be on their own automated valve) and attached spa assuming the spa is correctly designed.

The SuperFlo VSP is NOT what you want, it can not be integrated with your automation system (EasyTouch). The SuperFlo is meant for stand-alone pump replacements.
 
mknauss said:
Only caveat is to NOT get the SVRS model. Not needed and can cause issues.

Take care.
Click to expand...

I don't see those listed anymore....my VSP is 4 years old and the new ones now give the user the choice of either operating in variable speed mode OR variable flow mode. That's pretty nice! Also the display is rotatable and, I think if you request it as a special item, they can make the pump so that the control panel is wall mounted as opposed to being mounted on the pump.

IntelliFlo's just keep getting better....best VSP on the market in my opinion.
 
Joyful noise,
Thanks for the info. We have a small 1hp water feature pump to run the bubblers so I can control them independent of the pool. Also our spa will have a large spillway(think infinity edge) that will require alot of flow.

I am going to get pricing to swap the whisper flo with the intelliflo.
 
Sorry for the stupid question but... what is the physical reason variable speed pumps are more efficient?

Also: why would a VSP be more subject to freeze? Is there anything different in the parts that touch water? I thought they just used some sort of variable speed motor, but that is a fully electric part that should never be in contact with water for obvious reasons
 
manoweb said:
Sorry for the stupid question but... what is the physical reason variable speed pumps are more efficient?

Also: why would a VSP be more subject to freeze? Is there anything different in the parts that touch water? I thought they just used some sort of variable speed motor, but that is a fully electric part that should never be in contact with water for obvious reasons
Click to expand...

When you have a single speed pump, it runs at full power and full speed (3450RPMs). So, depending on the total dynamic head (TDH) of your plumbing system, you may or may not be in the sweet-spot of the pumping curve (TDH versus Flow Rate).

With a variable speed pump, you set the rotational speed of the pump and you can dial in the exact RPMs that gives you the flow you want.

VSPs typically can run at much lower speeds for a given TDH thus giving the pool owner a BIG savings in electrical power consumption.

Single speed pumps are the Bakelite rotary telephones of the pool pump works. VSPs are the iPhone X of the pool pump world.
 
I understand how a variable speed motor works and how to control one. I also do not consider the iphone the pinnacle or phone technology :D but that is a whole different matter :)
I do not understand the plumbing terminology you mentioned so I will have to read up on those.

However I understand that a pump has a goal to move so much water every day. It can do it in a matter of hours at the maximum speed, or take the whole day at a lower speed... In principle one would think the energy required to move so much water is the same and does not matter how much time it takes, but there is evidently a physical reason why going slower is more efficient. Maybe less friction in the pipes if water goes slow?
 

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