Straddling the BBB conversion...

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Hi JJ, As the others have said, that's certainly your decision to make, regardless of which road you choose to take. All our goals are the same, and that is that you end up with your clear pool back again in the safest, and most effective way possible. No doubt there are several different ways of achieving that goal, but ultimately which of those you decide to try is entirely up to you.

The episode in my thread about the DE in my sand filter was my 1st time ever adding it. I questioned whether I had poured in too much, pour it too fast, etc. So after the fact, LOL after I got less freaked out by what had initially happened, I tried it again, and as long as I remain slightly below that 1/4 cup my filter does fine, but as soon as the entire 1/4 cup gets in there, all heck again breaks loose.

(The 2nd time I intentionally slowly added that amount again just to see if it was related to pouring it in too quickly, etc. the 1st time, or not, and again the issue occur). But anyway, that's why all of us do stress the importance of the need to watch that pressure gauge closely especially until one can determine how much their filter will, or won't tolerate. I still today use DE in my sand filter sometimes, and it doesn't bother me or my filter in the least to do so now, but that's because now I know that I have to remain below that 1/4th cup mark. LOL Live and Learn. Please know that I didn't tell you my story to try to detour you from trying it in yours if you want to. (Because it now works well in mine, but then again, I have a different media than you, and as I mentioned, I can't say for certain if it will do the same in yours). I just mentioned it so you would in deed be sure to closely monitor yours, should you add it, just in case. :)

I agree with what Kim said above, "when in doubt don't! Better safe than sorry." That's always the best philosophy to follow. :)
Have a wonderful night JJ. Good luck on whatever your decide, and keep us posted on how things are going. :)
 
Not to worry, CJ4U...

I should have worded my second reason behind waiting to aggressively face the haze problem a lot better. The thing is I've been through a LOT with the pool this Summer, long before coming to TFP. And now I feel like I'm on the last lap but the finish line keeps moving.

Just one example of this Summer's frolics was finding a failed multi-port during a switch over from filtration to circulation which caused a coiled drainage line to blow at about 10 o'clock at night. I think that's why your experience resonated so deeply with me.

So, I really mean it when I say not to worry about sharing your experience (or other's) and I truly appreciate the detailed DE/cellulose fiber instructions, including the risks involved. I sure didn't have that to back me when my system was grumbling like a lowrider while giving me an impromptu shower under a full moon. ;-)

Another concern is that glass media itself; learning it's actual on site capabilities as well as its drawbacks without falling prey to global marketing text or having unfounded expectations. I actually don't expect my pool supply owner to have many answers since its so new to him too but not getting answers from Maytronics or Dryden Aqua leaves me less than impressed.

In the end, I know I'll get this slight haze issue resolved, assuming the right levels of chemistry and appropriate filtration doesn't do it on its own. I may be doggedly persistent but not necessarily the most patient.

At least I know I have knowledgeable and caring resources with no hidden agendas here and trust I'll share the "next chapter"... hopefully to celebrate.

Sweet dreams!
 
"shower under a full moon" sounds like a romantic movie! LOL

I bet it was NOT fun or romantic but picture it my way for a minute and it might give you are smile! :rolleyes:

I am looking forward to your report on the clearing of your water.

Have you been taking pics of your water to see if you can see a difference with a camera?

Kim
 
kimkats said:
"shower under a full moon" sounds like a romantic movie! LOL
I bet it was NOT fun or romantic but picture it my way for a minute and it might give you are smile! :rolleyes:

I am looking forward to your report on the clearing of your water.
Have you been taking pics of your water to see if you can see a difference with a camera?

Kim
Click to expand...

Oh yes... that pool and its equipment have created many memories over 13 years and that particular one was truly funny once I gathered myself and realized I hadn't blown up the works!

And... I have an update to follow. No photos but I think I might have found the reason for the subtle haze this morning.
 
Update...

I woke up to a clear and haze free pool after running the filtration all night.

So, with a sigh of relief and gratitude, I take my daily measurements and slowly add in my bleach right in front of my favorite outlet. Feed the beasties, pour coffee, take the dog out, and what do I see but a return of that subtle haze.

Then I looked at my pool journal. That subtle haze began developing when I switched to a generic (fragrance and splash free) bleach as opposed to the Clorox with which I started.

I'm no scientist but I'm thinking that generic brand could just be the culprit. According to the testing, it sanitizes fine and FC loss is about the same if not a tad higher (2-3ppm/day) but after seeing that haze so quickly replace the sparkle, I'm going to go back to Clorox tomorrow.

Here's hoping that works once and for all.
 

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I'm also curious what happens when you switch back too. I suppose like with anything else, anything is possible. I've been switched from name brand to generics meds that were suppose to be the same, yet I was unable to take the generic because of side effects associate with some of them that I did Not have with the name brand, even though it stated the ingredients were "suppose" to be the same. So it will be interesting to see what you determine. Also if you do find that the bleach was the culprit list the Brand, etc. for us to so we can watch for any further issues in the future, and/or suggest to others that might not be their best choice. I hope the Clorox clears it right on up. :)
 
Some generic bleach has a higher percentage of excess lye in it especially compared to its concentration. This can result in a net pH rise over time when using such a product. This is on top of the pH rise that comes from carbon dioxide outgassing but is something that can't be minimized with a lower TA level.

Of course, there are some types of bleach one wants to avoid because of other additives. Splash-less (sometimes called "outdoor") bleaches have thickener and can foam. Scented bleaches have, well, scent chemicals and while they aren't particularly harmful, there's no need to add them to a pool.
 
chem geek said:
Some generic bleach has a higher percentage of excess lye in it especially compared to its concentration. This can result in a net pH rise over time when using such a product. This is on top of the pH rise that comes from carbon dioxide outgassing but is something that can't be minimized with a lower TA level.

Of course, there are some types of bleach one wants to avoid because of other additives. Splash-less (sometimes called "outdoor") bleaches have thickener and can foam. Scented bleaches have, well, scent chemicals and while they aren't particularly harmful, there's no need to add them to a pool.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, chem geek!

After reading every pertinent thread I could find to justify or negate my theory, I realized excess lye could in fact be the issue in the 8.25% additive-free generic brand I recently chose. I also noticed a tiny creep in the pH but since it's holding at 7.8 I wasn't going to address it until I saw what the results might be after several days of returning back to 8.25% concentrated Clorox. The next few days should "tell the rest of the story."

Speaking of outgassing though... since I have a rather high 325 CH level, would that outgassing be pulling out calcium particulates or, for that matter, my personal demon copper? I do use an HEDP sequestrant on a weekly basis but I was just wondering.
 
No, outgassing doesn't affect calcium or copper at all. They are completely unrelated. Dissolved solids and metals do not outgas. Volatile gasses outgas such as carbon dioxide if it is over-saturated in the water (which it is) and some volatile organic compounds can outgas (such as some chloramines). Your CH and metal levels won't change except from getting lowered by water dilution with water lower in CH and metal. Evaporation and refill will increase CH and metal to the extent that these are in fill water.
 
chem geek said:
No, outgassing doesn't affect calcium or copper at all. They are completely unrelated. Dissolved solids and metals do not outgas. Volatile gasses outgas such as carbon dioxide if it is over-saturated in the water (which it is) and some volatile organic compounds can outgas (such as some chloramines). Your CH and metal levels won't change except from getting lowered by water dilution with water lower in CH and metal. Evaporation and refill will increase CH and metal to the extent that these are in fill water.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification, chem geek. Your ability to explain this material to the uninformed is a gift. Never stop!
 
kimkats said:
Joan would you share the brand of bleach you were using? If you want to wait until you see if it is/was really the bleach I understand.

kim
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No, I don't mind sharing what I've found whether my subtle haze is really rooted in that product's composition or not... though I highly suspect it is since that is the only product which was changed in my new (and well documented) TFP routine. Notably, there was absolutely NO haze before its use.

I would also add this 8.25% regular bleach did hold an effective sanitizing level (which, as we all know, is really key) but it was a bit thinner and lighter in color than 8.25% additive-free concentrated Clorox.

After doing just the briefest of searching, the <i>Essential Everyday</i> bleach I used is just one of literally hundreds of household items distributed through KIK Custom Products Material Safety Data Sheet Library and sold through many mainstream retailers throughout our nation.

What's even more interesting is KIK Custom Products' history statement KIK Custom Products Inc | About KIK, e.g., beginning with private label bleach production in 1993 to its diversification into pool and spa additives, specifically in 2013. (Gasp!)

Interesting. Or not. ;-)
 

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