Straddling the BBB conversion...

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Joan,

I wish to thank you for this thread! I TOTALLY love the way this is going. This thread right here displays the main reason why I personally put in the time I do for TFP. You came to us using product after product suggested by the pool store costing hundreds of dollars. In a matter of a week armed with some basic knowledge you're saving yourself a TON of cash and greatly simplified the maintenance of your pool. KEEP IT UP!

Thank you for reminding me why I personally am here on TFP!
Lee
 
pabeader said:
Here I am gain with another pointer: If you want to, you can change the title of this thread. You go all the way back to post #1 and edit it. It should give you the option to change the Title.

Completely up to you in that regard.
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You know, Bob... I thought about it and I'm just too attached to the reminder of humble beginnings. Thanks for the heads up though. ;-)
 
kimkats said:
I like that you are keeping it in this thread. Like you said we can keep heading in the same direction.

It is nice to hear that you have done some searching on your own. TFP has quite a search engine!

Kim
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Hi Kim ~

I suspect it might not have looked like it some of the time (what with all the handholding while I built some confidence) but I really did find out in a hurry just how good TFP's search engine is. Whoever put this website together and keeps it so well maintained is a master of the art!

Oh, and I'm definitely keeping this thread. At my age, I might forget where I put it if I changed it. ;-)

Sweet dreams!
 
Leebo said:
Joan,

I wish to thank you for this thread! I TOTALLY love the way this is going. This thread right here displays the main reason why I personally put in the time I do for TFP. You came to us using product after product suggested by the pool store costing hundreds of dollars. In a matter of a week armed with some basic knowledge you're saving yourself a TON of cash and greatly simplified the maintenance of your pool. KEEP IT UP!

Thank you for reminding me why I personally am here on TFP!
Lee
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You are most welcome, Lee!

Like any thinking person, I appreciate saving money and using planet friendly sustainable products but I really want to share the following with you. If you like, you may forward it on to other administrators or the big guy if you see fit. It's up to you.

For me, it all really started with a google search which led me to an old TFP thread (since locked and closed) outlining how to perform an ascorbic acid treatment. That was about a week before I registered after riding the last merry-go-round with my pool supply house.

Since then I have learned SO much; not just from reading (and re-reading) Pool School and opening every link that applied (and some that didn't) but from all of the little tips to be garnered from the helpful and knowledgeable volunteers here. I also followed a few random threads, initially just to see what others have faced and achieved yet never came away without learning something of value.

The assistance offered here is consistent albeit with different styles which carry an almost magic ability to match the inquirer's pace and specific needs, be it a focus on information or simple encouragement. That's a gift and a rare one. Lastly, the technical resources here are amazing... everything from the nuts and bolts of equipment management, repair, and replacement to easy to understand scientific explanations of how chemistry works (and why it sometimes doesn't).

Oh yes, I'm a great fan of TFP. And I'm glad you're here too.
 
Jumpin' Joan said:
Hi Kim ~

I suspect it might not have looked like it some of the time (what with all the handholding while I built some confidence) but I really did find out in a hurry just how good TFP's search engine is. Whoever put this website together and keeps it so well maintained is a master of the art!

Oh, and I'm definitely keeping this thread. At my age, I might forget where I put it if I changed it. ;-)

Sweet dreams!
Click to expand...

Better to ask than not is my motto! Hand holding is what we do when it is needed. I LOVE to help so don't want others to find the search engine too soon! LOL I had to shoot a link to the table of contents when another members needs and learning curve were way outgrowing my ability to help!

Kim
 
2nd ascorbic acid treatment with a polyquat 60 question...

After three 4 oz. AA doses (30 min. apart), my troublesome orange staining finally dissipated and was promptly followed up with 16 oz. of sequestrant. I also added 4 oz. of polyquat 60 (in the hopes of offsetting any algae onset while waiting out the first 24-hrs. to begin slowly re-adjusting my chemistry).

I don't know if I jumped the gun or was operating out of the last time's failure (which did result in an algae bloom with limited use of polyquat 60) but I added another 4 oz. of polyquat 60 six hrs. later.

Is it indicated (or even safe) to add yet another 4 oz. of polyquat 60 before shutting the lights?

These numbers will be retested tomorrow morning but this is where I currently stand:

pH 6.8 (OTO)
FC .5
CC .5 (a reading that's never changed despite any level of FC)
TA 60
CH 350
CYA 33

As of this moment, the water remains exceptionally clear and the pool is on 24/7 filtering mode and will stay there until I pass an OCLT test unless advised otherwise.
 

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The AA treatment is arguably the most difficult process we teach on TFP, with the Baqua conversion a close 2nd IMHO. Have you read the directions Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains? They need to be closely followed. Your pool was clean of any algae before the process and the added insurance of the Poly 60 should help you remain algae free. If you've added the initial amount I see no reason to add more, but it shouldn't hurt anything if you do.
 
Leebo said:
The AA treatment is arguably the most difficult process we teach on TFP, with the Baqua conversion a close 2nd IMHO. Have you read the directions Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains? They need to be closely followed. Your pool was clean of any algae before the process and the added insurance of the Poly 60 should help you remain algae free. If you've added the initial amount I see no reason to add more, but it shouldn't hurt anything if you do.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think I have that AA treatment text memorized by now. ;-) And, I even have a hard copy with lots of little details highlighted! In other words, I just don't want any mistakes turning into invisible bacterial loads this go around. (I was algae-free at the start last time too.)

So... based on your thoughts and honoring my inner OCD self, I'll add that last 4 oz. of polyquat 60 tonight because I can't start adjusting the TA until 8:30 tomorrow morning at the earliest (24-hrs. after adding the first 4 oz. of AA). Once I know the TA is at least in the window (70-90) and my pH isn't over 7.2, I'm moving in on slowly adjusting/maintaining the FC to "minimum chlorine level for your CYA according to the best guess chart" (2/3). If no staining returns, I'll aim a little higher the following day until life turns back to my "new normal."

Keeping all fingers and paws crossed. And you're right, the AA treatment is not for the feint of heart.
 
Does polyquat 60 have chlorine in it? I ask because this morning's results taken to guide slow rebalance of water after yesterday's successful AA treatment are... well... amazing.

The water remains clear (with the usual level of overnight bits and minimum floor debris), no staining is present, psi still sitting at originating 15, and this morning's TF-100 testing was repeated three times (due to disbelief)! Nothing was added except for last night's final 4 oz. of polyquat 60.

pH jumped from 6.8 to 7.2 (OTO)
TA remained stable at 60
FC jumped from .5 to 4
CC jumped from .5 to 1

Left to my own devices (and using PoolMath), I'd add 9.4 oz. of baking soda to increase the TA 10ppm (with the hopes of not shooting up the pH) and add 7.4 oz. of bleach to raise the FC to 5 (with the hopes of out maneuvering that CC 1 and avoiding the need for a mini-SLAM). But I need some advice from those who know much more than I.

While I wait for guidance of some kind, I'm going to go skim and vacuum.

UPDATE: With sun flooding more of the pool surface and wearing polarized sunglasses, there was much more debris on the floor than originally thought and a more than usual amount of vegetative fallout (primarily dead pine needles) in the skimmer. Water remains clear, no visible algae, no staining. Am moving forward with the above adjustments and will keep testing repeatedly through the day.

2nd UPDATE: The following results came in a little over an hour after the first adjustments outlined above.

pH stayed steady at 7.2 (can't say I'm a fan of the OTO test, especially the TC side)
TA 70 with one more "jump" due to reach the magic 80ppm in order to minimize pH bounce
FC 4 with what I'm sure will be multiple 1ppm adjustments throughout the day to avoid algae/staining
CC .5 (never so happy to see that "blush" again)
 
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Hello JJ.

Girl you sound like you are on a roll. Keep up the great job. Chlorine can combine with other organics, other than algae, so hopefully the CC 1 was just the chlorine down there combining with the pine needles, and now that those are being removed problem solved.

As far as the TA being increased more, the recommended levels are merely a baseline and not everyone needs to go to that exact level to prevent their pH bounces, so you might want to just monitor it for a bit, and see if 70ppm TA helps the situation before raising it again.

A lot of people just allow their TA to float, and it will usually find it's own "sweet spot" and settle in, stopping all the crazy pH fluctuations which can be a pain for sure.

As far as the Polyquat containing chlorine it does not. I'm not sure if something that is in it (i.e. possibly the ethylene dichloride, or something else in it, may have registered as a false chlorine increase, but I can't say for certain, as that is way out of my level of knowledge. Perhaps someone more chemistry orientated than myself can better explain why it registered the way it did.

Polyquat may reduce the amount of chlorine needed to be added in a few cases, as mentioned in this link:http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...e-and-polyquat (Refer to comment #3)
and there are more cases where people have mentioned a significant decline in their chlorine levels after using PolyQuat. But as described by Jason in comment 3 in the link above, "most of the time it won't have any obvious effect on chlorine usage."

Here are a couple of links discussing this that might be of interest to you too.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/46432-Polyquat-algaecides-Mode-of-Action

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/6147-PolyQuat-and-Shocking-with-Chlorine


I hope this helps. Have a wonderful day. :)
 
Thanks for the feedback, Cj4u ~

The FC recovery is already trending; 1ppm loss in the first hour, another 1ppm loss two hours later, and both returning the CC to .5 with no more staining. I did have a plump TA of 90 before this started but I'll be more than happy with 80 while keeping the pH low over the next two weeks as the AA treatment advises.

By the by, typical FC loss was totaling 2ppm with water temps of 78-81F and ambient temps of highs in the mid-90's and lows in the mid-60's. Have to love this time of the year when the monsoonal season is coming to an end. I think you're right about that small rise in CC too... pine needle deadfall is common as are deliveries from the "no tell motel" the birds keep visiting in the adjacent plum tree. ;-)

As for the reason for the mysterious FC uptick... I'm not quite sure what to make of that. BUT since the links you shared clearly illustrate polyquat 60 draws down FC (and acts as an inhibitor as opposed to a true algaecide), it may just be a remnant of Enhance Summer (my filter media's catalyst) in action. Before anyone asks or comments, I do not intend to continue use of that product based on ChemGeek's thorough explanation of the likelihood of over oxidation risk.

Anywayzzz... I'm grateful for the easy FC start-up (whatever the reason for it might be) and happy to just keep rockin' on. One day (and that day is getting closer by the minute), I'll be much more comfortable with the long term care of this pool.

Peace to you and yours!
 
Because I noticed a subtle haze developing at the very end of my 2-week AA aftercare window, I decided to run a full complement of TF100 tests and start adjusting chemistry 2 days early. Before and during the haze "development" the FC was constantly maintained, the pool frequently skimmed and vacuumed, and one rather deep backwash/rinse was completed.

pH 7.2
TA 80
FC 5
CC </= .5
CH 325
CYA 43

At first I thought I found the reason for the haze because an FC of 5 was just a tad low with the 10 point increase in CYA (apparently caused by 3 rather mushy pucks left in a chlorinator I thought was turned off and which were immediately removed).

Yesterday, I raised the pH (which temporarily clouded the pool and, as expected, also increased the TA), pushed the FC up 3 points (to meet the new CYA 50 based demand/UV impact), and ran the filter all night. The FC measured 6.5 with a CC of </= .5 at 9:00 pm and was repeated this morning at 6:30 am. Gratefully, the water cleared but I was still left with the subtle haze.

After today's usual FC adjustment to maintain CYA demand/UV impact and adding a weekly maintenance 3 oz. dose of sequestrant, tonight's readings are:

pH 7.5
TA 110
FC 6
CC </= .5

How do I get rid of the haze?
 
Joan - Did you forget about DE? I'm sure it must have been mentioned at some point. If it wasn't, please accept my humble apology! Since you have a sand filter, regardless of what media is in it, you can add a TINY amount of DE to it. This will help it clear up a haze. It isn't for algae blooms though, just for polishing an otherwise, clean and clear pool. If this sounds like you, let me know.
 

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