Straddling the BBB conversion...

[Jumpin' Joan]

I did a slight edit to the reference list above and added (Since the AA treatment) to the 1st paragraph. I didn't mention that you did SLAM prior to beginning the AA treatment, and also added additional Polyquat during the AA treatment which I am mentioning now lol.

You are a proofreader's dream! ;-) And a significant catch you made about the initial SLAM (after the first successful AA treatment) which caused the orange staining to return because I didn't lower the pH enough and heightened the chlorine way too fast. That was a hard lesson learned but one I won't forget!

None of us wants you to SLAM if you don't need to, but we all want you to perform a SLAM if you do need to. So keep us posted, we're all rooting for you.

Thanks, CJ4U! I hear you and do trust if the 24 hour filtering (which may include cellulose fiber if I can find it in my tiny town) over the next few days doesn't cut into this mystery, I'm up for another SLAM.

What I still don't understand is exactly why repetitively passing OCLT tests and having a 0 or </= .5 CC levels don't necessarily negate the presence of algae and/or bacteria.

I hope your friend is alright. Have a wonderful day.

I'll relay your good wishes to her (another steroid injection before inevitable hip surgery). And I am having a wonderful day (kind of like the calm before the storm at the moment). I just finished tending to the pool and, this time, that "dust" was lighter than ever but carried that same sandy color... just a lot less of it. What's interesting is that the water didn't increase the haze level when I was finished brushing and vacuuming.

So it goes.

 

[kimkats]

Joan that is very interesting...........it does seem VERY different than what I went through.......Hummmmmmm

I am starting to wonder about your filter material. Is it just not filter good enough? Just something to think about.

I like your idea of running the filter 24/7 as much as possible to see if that helps.

HUGS!

Kim

 

[chiefwej]

If you don't have the time or energy to search for cellulose fiber, you can order some from Amazon for less than $10. It would probably cost more than that in gas, trying to find it. They have several sizes. The small 9 or 16 oz. should be OK for what you are doing.

Amazon.com: Cellulose fiber filter media: Patio, Lawn Garden

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

If you don't have the time or energy to search for cellulose fiber, you can order some from Amazon for less than $10. It would probably cost more than that in gas, trying to find it. They have several sizes. The small 9 or 16 oz. should be OK for what you are doing.

Amazon.com: Cellulose fiber filter media: Patio, Lawn Garden

Would you happen to have a favorite brand?

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

Joan that is very interesting...it does seem VERY different than what I went through.
I am starting to wonder about your filter material. Is it just not filter good enough? Just something to think about.
I like your idea of running the filter 24/7 as much as possible to see if that helps.

This transparent haze is an odd duck... or at least it is to me. I've had algae blooms and bacterial loads from various sources through the years (formerly tested and treated through my pool supply house) but this water looks and reacts in a completely different manner. I've also had pollen in the water before (though never in Autumn) but this looks nothing like that either.

Added to the above, I started with sparkling water for three days shortly after the first AA treatment (which I blew with poor aftercare management) and again for ten days almost immediately after the second AA treatment, so I'm fairly certain my new glass media isn't the culprit. By the by, both times I backwashed and rinsed that media just to be sure I flushed out as much of the staining particulates I could and the water appeared pristine with fresh fill (though I know that water also contained high levels of copper and calcium).

Then the hazing began, coincidentally or not, only after addition of the generic bleach. I still wonder about that. A lot. And I have yet to understand exactly why repetitively passing OCLT tests and having a 0 or </= .5 CC levels don't necessarily negate the presence of algae and/or bacteria.

It's a conundrum for sure but I'll get through it one way or another.

Since we're enduring a rather prolonged spate of storms with more hail in the forecast, I'm choosing the safest route I know for the near term which is simply to maintain my routine with the addition of 24/7 filtering (with or without cellulose fiber) unless the water takes an undeniable turn or the numbers go awry. If the haze is still with me after this spate of storms finally passes, I'll also be more confident of the "post AA" timing and the adjustments necessary to complete a successful SLAM.

May vigilant perseverance win! (Sorry for the rant, I just had to get it off my heavy heart.)

 

[Crackerjack4u]

Hi JJ

I can't remember if I saw this in the comments, or not, but do you have a skimmer sock, or a knee high panty hose inside your skimmer basket? Some people also use hairnets instead, which are discussed in the comments of the thread below. If not, that might help trap some of the finer particles, and help clear the hazy water faster since you didn't use the DE. Unless of course the problem is algae, or bacteria, then a SLAM would still be needed, and the haze probably won't go away, but it might be worth a shot to try one and see?

Here's a link to a thread that I wrote talking about how beneficial they are. http://www.troublefreepool.com/thre...-on-the-town-or-a-Winter-hunting-trip-anymore

I hope this helps, and have a nice night .

 

[chiefwej]

Would you happen to have a favorite brand?

I have used three different brands and have found no difference between them. In your situation you should need very little. Be aware that cellulose is an organic product and if one leaves it in a filter too long it will start to break down, so be sure to backwash it out before that happens.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

... do you have a skimmer sock inside your skimmer basket?

Yes, maam, I do. And I keep a smooth river rock in it to prevent billowing and rejection of its contents when the filter is at rest. For me, it's especially helpful during pollen season but, as far as I can tell, it hasn't helped in any appreciable way during this "hazing" issue.

As always, thanks for the thought. ;-)

- - - Updated - - -

I have used three different brands and have found no difference between them. In your situation you should need very little. Be aware that cellulose is an organic product and if one leaves it in a filter too long it will start to break down, so be sure to backwash it out before that happens.

Just to confirm... are you saying once the water clears with the cellulose fiber aid to immediately backwash/rinse the filter as opposed to waiting out a 20-25% rise in psi?

I'm also on the hunt for local purveyor of cellulose fiber today. If nothing else, I can use it as a backup later to enhance pollen management.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

Update...

After overnight filtering, the water was a lot clearer this morning with less sand-colored fallout than usual. Testing showed a rise in pH from 7.5 to 7.8 and yesterday's typical FC loss of 2ppm with another </= .5 CC.

I reduced pH to 7.2 with dry acid (preparing for possible SLAM), brushed and vacuumed, added bleach with the usual target of 8 (against a CYA of 50) and about 30 minutes later... the haze picked up to its "frustrating norm." Sigh.

Storms are surrounding us with the desert treat of temporary sun breaks so I'm headed out in search of cellulose fiber while the filter keeps humming.

 

[chiefwej]

I was using cellulose fiber in my DE filter and was seeing excellent results. It seemed to filter better than DE. Water was even clearer and had more sparkle. But what I discovered was that while I could leave the DE in until I saw significant pressure rise, if the cellulose remained in the filter more than a month or so, when I did a break-down cleaning the cellulose had started to turn brown and sticky. It might have been hard to backwash completely out of the filter. So that meant regular backwashing every month or cleaning is a break-down operation. After a season on the fiber I switched back to DE. I miss the even finer filtration of the fiber, but I have a VS pump so I can just filter more hours on a low speed for a bit better filtration.

With a sand filter, the cellulose fiber should work well, just add enough to get a pound or so increase in pressure, leave it in until you see the water clear, then backwash. Just make sure it's not in there for months without backwashing.

 

[Crackerjack4u]

Hi JJ,
I hate to hear that for sure. I was reading another thread yesterday, and they had cloudy water after their AA treatment, yet seemed to be passing OCLT and had a CC of .5 or less, with no visible algae seen etc. They ended up locating green behind their return covers, and on their skimmer plate. So be sure, and check those areas well too because if it's in there we need to find it. I'm heading out to the Cardiologist for more testing UGGGG lol, so I'll be back later. Good luck hun, and have a wonderful day.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

With a sand filter, the cellulose fiber should work well, just add enough to get a pound or so increase in pressure, leave it in until you see the water clear, then backwash. Just make sure it's not in there for months without backwashing.

Ha! I can't even imagine going months without backwashing. Truly. Anywayzzz ~ I'll be sure to backwash as soon as the water clears or even if it doesn't clear within 2-3 days. If the latter happens, we all know I'm moving into SLAM status no matter what my testing results may be.

Oh... and I did find cellulose fiber at Leslie's. It's a 3 lb. bag but it won't go to waste when the real pollen season arrives (along with sand storms) next Spring.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

I was reading another thread yesterday, and they had cloudy water after their AA treatment, yet seemed to be passing OCLT and had a CC of .5 or less, with no visible algae seen etc. They ended up locating green behind their return covers, and on their skimmer plate. So be sure, and check those areas well too because if it's in there we need to find it.

I see the skimmer plate every day (when cleaning the skimmer sock and making sure nothing is underneath the basket). Nothing sighted. I've also pulled the return jackets and even checked the depths of the filter basket (including reaching into the input/output lines)... same thing, nothing sighted and no foreign objects found. So, the mystery remains.

I'm heading out to the Cardiologist for more testing UGGGG lol, so I'll be back later. Good luck hun, and have a wonderful day.

Wishing you the same with great results from your cardiologist!

 

[chiefwej]

3 pounds of cellulose fiber is a lot. That's enough to do a few full recharges on my 60 sq ft DE filter. The way you will be using it that should last forever. I was recommending a 9 oz bag or at most a 1 pound. BTW Leslie's is one of the brands I have used. It's fine, they just charge more than some other places.

 

[Leebo]

Can you post a photo of your water? I've been reading up on the AA treatment as its one of the more "advanced" processes we teach on TFP. I myself have little to no knowledge of this entire process. Turns out cloudy water is normal for a few days after the process is complete. Filtering 24/7 helps as should some DE.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

Clarification needed...

Could someone explain to this frustrated pool owner exactly why repetitively passing OCLT tests with 0 or </= .5 CC levels don't necessarily negate the presence of algae and/or bacteria?

I ask because I have resistant subtle haze with balanced chemistry that began 10 days after a recent successful ascorbic acid treatment. Notably, the water started with sparkle but was mysteriously lost to this slight haze which predictably upticks within 30 minutes after adding 8.25% additive-free bleach (generic or brand name).

Tonights readings:

pH 7.2 (preparing for SLAM if it's truly unavoidable)
TA 90
FC 6
CC </= .5
CH 325
CYA 43 (rolled up to 50 for FC targeting)
Copper .15 (treated weekly with HEDP sequestrant)

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

3 pounds of cellulose fiber is a lot. That's enough to do a few full recharges on my 60 sq ft DE filter. The way you will be using it that should last forever. I was recommending a 9 oz bag or at most a 1 pound. BTW Leslie's is one of the brands I have used. It's fine, they just charge more than some other places.

As long as that product doesn't have an expiration date somewhere on it (haven't found one), I'll just keep it in the pantry or share it with some other frustrated pool owner when the subject rises. ;-) Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

Can you post a photo of your water? I've been reading up on the AA treatment as its one of the more "advanced" processes we teach on TFP. I myself have little to no knowledge of this entire process. Turns out cloudy water is normal for a few days after the process is complete. Filtering 24/7 helps as should some DE.

Honestly, Lee, this water doesn't look a whole lot worse than the photo on this thread's post #26. It's a very subtle thing but it just doesn't sparkle like it did for the first TEN days after that last ascorbic treatment.

I originally thought it was due to using generic bleach with excess lye in the fillers but since I've switched back to 8.25% additive-free Clorox, the haze takes a brief uptick and then returns to its "new norm." Presently, I'm filtering 24/7 and once I'm sure I won't risk getting hit by lightning I'll be adding cellulose fiber and watching my filter like a hawk. If all else fails, I've already reduced the pH to 7.2 in preparation for a SLAM.

Blech!

 

[woodyp]

Re: Clarification needed...

It is quite possible to have algae in the pool and never show ANY CC at all. Even during a SLAM while killing it.

 

[Jumpin' Joan]

Re: Clarification needed...

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, rather I am simply trying to understand. If that's the case, then why am I running OCLT's and checking CC levels instead of just looking for obvious signs of algae?

The way I understand it, lack of clarity can be attributed to other things too... calcium clouding, suspended metal in water, the possibility of excess lye from generic bleach still floating around and, no doubt, things I have yet to learn about.

After one failed ascorbic acid treatment due to poorly managed aftercare, I don't want to run a SLAM and risk return of orange staining if it isn't really necessary. So, how would I know if I'm really fighting algae and/or bacteria or even really need to, let alone be successful, if these tests are open ended?