Straddling the BBB conversion...

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I'm still checking numbers in Poolmath.

Have you added any other chemicals using pool math, your new test kit, and that gallon size that did in fact put the levels where you expected them to go?

I've actually gotten it to hit from 5 to 14.5 with that amount of chlorine being added with several different scenarios, but none of which makes a lot of sense, nor would be an appropriate fix, or simple adjustment for you. Pool Math has always been nothing but extremely accurate anytime I've ever used it, unless I personally made an error.

Aside from the wrong amount of chlorine being added to the pool, testing error of the actual starting level, gallon size discrepancy, or wrong bleach concentration being put in, I'm not getting very far, very fast on determining the cause of the unexpected rise. I'm still working to try to determine what exactly did happened, how we can go about correcting it, to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'll let you know if/when I come up with something else.


Also if you are concerned about the 16ppm for 40CYA since you are at 33 CYA, just split the difference between the 12 and 16 shock levels, and maintain the FC at 14ppm, at least until we can get all the other issues with the calculations figured out 1st.
 
Crackerjack4u said:
We generally round up as opposed to down on the CYA level to ensure you get adequate chlorine in it.

Treatment levels for mustard algae are even higher (You DON'T have mustard algae, but I'm just saying that it can be safely raised even higher than the 16ppm). Here's the link for those levels if you want to see them. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/2177-Chlorine-CYA-Chart

My thought on the higher than expected level of the add is that perhaps the gallons of water aren't exactly right. If you don't have the pool filled to specific level it can cause those types of things to occur sometimes. I'm going to go into Pool Math and mess around with some numbers and see if I can figure out where the issue from last night came in, and see what you need to actually use to get you closer to your desired level. I hope this helps. I'll let you know what I come up with in Pool Math shortly :)

EDIT: From looking back on your post it appears last night was actually the 1st official time you've had to add bleach, or any other chemical to your pool using, your new test kit and also using pool math? Is that correct?
Click to expand...

Round up CYA advice noted.

Once I finish these two update posts, I'll check out that mustard algae link in the hopes I'll garner some more information. Until then (and beyond), I'm in your hands and trusting you all the way.

It's interesting you mention volume size of the pool. And this subject has come up repeatedly through the years. It's a 13 year old unit and it does have a peculiar if not consistent history which may or may not be related. The manufacturer lists it as a 5000 ga. capacity with a 3.5 ft. water level (not including ledges and steps), a level I stay true to even if it requires frequent top offs due to high evaporation in my area. The filter is also over-sized carrying 300 lbs. of filter media.

When water is completely replaced and the filter media is new (as it is now), chemicals seem to be absorbed at an unusual rate of speed. After 6 months or so, the rate starts to match what is expected using BioGuard products in a typical 5,000 ga. setting. After the CYA levels start hitting what I now know are questionably high levels, almost all BioGuard product reactions slow down... some dramatically. I don't have a lot of faith in my pool supply owner (for obvious reasons) but the consensus was that the size of the filter with new media combined with fresh fill loaded with copper and calcium was the reason for the previous sensitive upstarts. I take that with a grain salt though he may have something there.

And, yes, you are absolutely correct... last evening was my initial dose of bleach into this pool using my TF-100 test kit (with many repeated tests just to be sure) with use of PoolMath and TFP guides to determine appropriate dosing. Please keep in mind, that same water was treated with calcium hypochlorite only six days ago.

Update to follow.
 
Crackerjack4u said:
I'm still checking numbers in Poolmath.

Have you added any other chemicals using pool math, your new test kit, and that gallon size that did in fact put the levels where you expected them to go?

I've actually gotten it to hit from 5 to 14.5 with that amount of chlorine being added with several different scenarios, but none of which makes a lot of sense, nor would be an appropriate fix, or simple adjustment for you. Pool Math has always been nothing but extremely accurate anytime I've ever used it, unless I personally made an error.

Aside from the wrong amount of chlorine being added to the pool, testing error of the actual starting level, gallon size discrepancy, or wrong bleach concentration being put in, I'm not getting very far, very fast on determining the cause of the unexpected rise. I'm still working to try to determine what exactly did happened, how we can go about correcting it, to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'll let you know if/when I come up with something else.


Also if you are concerned about the 16ppm for 40CYA since you are at 33 CYA, just split the difference between the 12 and 16 shock levels, and maintain the FC at 14ppm, at least until we can get all the other issues with the calculations figured out 1st.
Click to expand...

No, this was my virgin flight using all of the above. But as I wrote in the previous post, it's not that unusual to see a quick uptake when the water and filter media are new. Maybe it's just a "quirk" of my pool but it does carry a consistent history of same. I was hoping it would be different with the TFPC method. Guess not.

Anyways ~ I finished brushing and vacuuming the pool (sort of like trying to vacuum my dog's fur when she's in blow out... the more I vacuumed, the more little bits seemed to appear at the opposing end of the pool). But I got it, eventually. I also noticed the water itself is clear BUT it's carrying some kind of oily appearance below the surface. Not sure if that's bleach or what. And the sparkle is offset by the return of light tan-colored global staining. No doubt, metal is being pulled out of the water right along with the contaminants (or maybe it's part of those contaminants). I'm no scientist but that loose debris looks like a combination of sand and dead vegetative matter... almost like the lines are clearing. Notably, there is nothing that looks green in any way, shape, or form.

I pulled a water sample at 11:45 am and tested it: FC 13, CC 1.0 (a downtick in FC by 1, and an uptick in CC by .5) Obviously, I need this inadvertent SLAM. Thanks so very much for helping!
 
Crackerjack4u said:
Also if you are concerned about the 16ppm for 40CYA since you are at 33 CYA, just split the difference between the 12 and 16 shock levels, and maintain the FC at 14ppm, at least until we can get all the other issues with the calculations figured out 1st.
Click to expand...

Okay... wanting to keep the SLAM moving and realizing my water might just be in that historical "window of increased sensitivity" (for whatever reason), I'm going to add the PoolMath's suggested 7.4 oz. of 8.25% bleach to push the present FC from 13 to 14. If the FC goes above that, I'm still safe.

Rockin' on. ;-)
 
You have a sound plan! There seems to be something about your water that really reacts to stuff. Have you had it tested for metals? The is just about the only test pool stores get close to right.

If it is metals there is things we can do to help out.

I am sorry to hear the staining is coming back :(

Kim
 
kimkats said:
You have a sound plan! There seems to be something about your water that really reacts to stuff. Have you had it tested for metals? The is just about the only test pool stores get close to right.

If it is metals there is things we can do to help out.

I am sorry to hear the staining is coming back :(

Kim
Click to expand...

Thanks, Kim...

I truly believe in the TFPC method and I've already slowly added those precious 7.4 oz of 8.25% bleach right in front of an underwater jet (just like I did the first batch). Judging from the oily appearance, I'm guessing that's what I'm seeing throughout the pool now. It's working too. There's already more little bits of debris moving around on the floor after my first vacuuming. Not much but it's there.

Oh yes, my aquifer based water has been tested not only by the pool supply house but, as of late, by the city at my behest. The pool supply house says the city is well aware but is resistant to additional filtering due to cost and it's impossible to offset drought impacted aquifers. But I'm a squeaky wheel... so we'll see.

It's one thing to draw out heavy metals in a pool. It's just a fact of life here but this year has been worse than ever as evidenced by my first attack of copper bound "purple haze" this year (something many other pool owners have had to face for the first time too).

But it's another thing when it comes to general water use. It's a proven fact seniors are at high risk for dementia from prolonged exposure to heavy metals and toddlers risk developing life long learning disabilities. There's just way too much copper in it to be safe despite the city's annual reports. The calcium levels are excessive too. And there are few in Las Cruces who don't routinely replace any water bearing fixtures in their homes. Sorry for the vent. It's obviously a hot spot for me.

I do know there's hope for the stain removal (I've had great success with TFP's ascorbic acid treatment... it's what brought me here in the first place) but I've not been willing to go the sequestrant route until I get my bearings with the TFPC method to back me up before introducing that treatment or a proactive use of sequestrant again. I'll get there though.

Later. I really need to walk the dog and think of something else for awhile.
 
Jumpin' Joan said:
Round up CYA advice noted.
Until then (and beyond), I'm in your hands and trusting you all the way.
Click to expand...

All I can say is :shock: LOL JJ. You are a Brave Soul.

Actually I'm still working on learning a lot of this stuff still too, so perhaps between me, all the others here, and the excellent knowledge you've already acquired, Together we can all "get er done."

I'm curious to see if the chlorine you just added raises your FC level too much again, or not.

In other words: LOL CJ4U is waiting patiently, while currently attempting to collect additional data, from round 2, after unsuspected rises during the maiden voyage of JJ's 1st official chlorine add attempted to derail the entire process. We shall not let one little high number lead to our confusion, or our demise. We shall prevail. So lol onward, and upward JJ because we know you can do it.

Have a nice day. :).
 
Crackerjack4u said:
All I can say is :shock: LOL JJ. You are a Brave Soul.

Actually I'm still working on learning a lot of this stuff still too, so perhaps between me, all the others here, and the excellent knowledge you've already acquired, Together we can all "get er done."

I'm curious to see if the chlorine you just added raises your FC level too much again, or not.

In other words: LOL CJ4U is waiting patiently, while currently attempting to collect additional data, from round 2, after unsuspected rises during the maiden voyage of JJ's 1st official chlorine add attempted to derail the entire process. We shall not let one little high number lead to our confusion, or our demise. We shall prevail. So lol onward, and upward JJ because we know you can do it.

Have a nice day. :).
Click to expand...

Do NOT underestimate your prowess, Captain Jack (I mean CJ4U)! I have the persistence and now I'm armed with knowledge, a trusty TF100 kit, and an entire new "village." Ha!

Your update, sir: Water sample was pulled 2-1/4 hrs. after 2nd adjustment (a full cycle for my pool) and continues to carry an FC of 14. But wait, there's more... the CC dropped to .5 which was substantiated by a remarkable decrease is visible debris. The psi remains steady at 16 (only 1 pt. above origin) and the water is crystal clear. The jury is out on the staining issue but it isn't getting any worse at this juncture.

It's my plan to test the water one more time today (at dusk), adjust FC to 14 if necessary, and keep the filter running through the night. We'll see what tomorrow brings but with any luck at all, it'll be an OCLT test tomorrow night.
 

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LOL You're Hilarious. Look out Everyone because JJ is Armed and Ready.:testkit:

All I can say is Lock and Load, and You go girl!!! It sounds like a plan to me, and us "Gals" can always benefit from a well thought out plan of action. Keep up the great job.

I'm glad to hear the level did increase to where Pool Math projected that it would, and not way over this time. It doing that gives me some reassurance, as I'm sure it does you too, that the pool gallons, etc. are estimated correctly, so hopefully from here on out it will not raise any higher than projected. Have a wonderful night :)
 
Jumpin' Joan said:
Oh yes, my aquifer based water has been tested not only by the pool supply house but, as of late, by the city at my behest. The pool supply house says the city is well aware but is resistant to additional filtering due to cost and it's impossible to offset drought impacted aquifers. But I'm a squeaky wheel... so we'll see.
Click to expand...

Joan,

I'd like to start off by saying that I'm quickly skimming these posts while I chase after the kids. Unfortunately I could have missed the answer to this question. What is the source of your fill water? Is this a personal well on your own property or is the fill water coming from a municipal water department?
 
Crackerjack4u said:
LOL You're Hilarious. Look out Everyone because JJ is Armed and Ready.:testkit:

All I can say is Lock and Load, and You go girl!!! It sounds like a plan to me, and us "Gals" can always benefit from a well thought out plan of action. Keep up the great job.

I'm glad to hear the level did increase to where Pool Math projected that it would, and not way over this time. It doing that gives me some reassurance, as I'm sure it does you too, that the pool gallons, etc. are estimated correctly, so hopefully from here on out it will not raise any higher than projected. Have a wonderful night :)
Click to expand...

Based on the performance, it's my best guess the 2nd flight was accurate. This evening's test resulted in another small adjustment (FC 13 back to 14 with a continuing .5 CC reading). In other words, all is good though tomorrow may be my personal version of "Groundhog Day."
 
Leebo said:
Joan,

I'd like to start off by saying that I'm quickly skimming these posts while I chase after the kids. Unfortunately I could have missed the answer to this question. What is the source of your fill water? Is this a personal well on your own property or is the fill water coming from a municipal water department?
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm honored you're taking the time to even skim these posts... probably much ado about nothing for the more seasoned folks.

To answer your question, my water source is supplied by the city and drawn from the aquifer of their choice, all of which carry heavy copper and calcium levels due to lengthy drought conditions. Switches are made at their own discretion with or without notice. When we do get a notice, it always advises users to wait until the water runs clear to wash white clothing/linen although it's considered potable. Gasp!
 
JJ I understand about the Gasp in your water comment above. We have a cabin at the lake that for years our water bills came with a big red Warning that drinking the water will cause cancer, but now even though the water comes from the exact same water source, the bills now say the water is safe to drink. LOL No thank you, I think I will pass, and bring my own drinking water. Amazing what they call safe. I bet they don't drink it.
 
Jumpin' Joan said:
To answer your question, my water source is supplied by the city and drawn from the aquifer of their choice, all of which carry heavy copper and calcium levels due to lengthy drought conditions. Switches are made at their own discretion with or without notice. When we do get a notice, it always advises users to wait until the water runs clear to wash white clothing/linen although it's considered potable. Gasp!
Click to expand...

Perfect!
Unfortunately, you are correct, the calcium levels are going to be VERY high and there is little that can be done to address that. It is what it is. :( The copper levels however is another story. Because of various health issues drinking copper can have, the EPA regulates the amount of copper that is allowed in drinking water to a very low limit. Rarely does metal's in the water come from fill water that passes through a water treatment plant of some sort. I quickly looked at the 2015 Las Cruces water report and sure enough the copper levels passed with flying colors. I'm really wondering if any of your metal staining could be coming from some of the products you have been using in the past before finding TFP, not your fill water.
 

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