Cloudy Pool After Algaecide and LOTS of Shock

[valvaltz]

Hi everyone, this is my second year owning an AG pool (see details in the signature). Last year the pool was basically easy peasy maintenance with clear water and following all the pool store recs and used the frogger infuser for chlorine. Fast forward to this year and it's been a constant struggle with cloudy water and what I strongly suspect is a constant battle against algae. We run the filter 24/7, FWIW.

I stumbled upon this community via google search. After reading some of the old threads I think I have a much better understanding that it's likely an algae bloom I'm constantly fighting off. In summary, I switched to NST tablets upon opening because CYA was too high and then CYA got too low so I am now back on Frogger system. Two weeks ago chlorine demand seemed really high. I'd shock and it would go back to zero (per test strips) in almost 48-72 hours. So I ended up shocking 3x in 1 week with cal hypo 1 lb. The phosphorus readings have also been super high so I added 56 oz of phosphorus remover per the pool store recs. Then I was advised to flocc...yes, yes this was probably a big mistake... but isn't hindsight always 20/20?

Despite "balanced" water, my pool is still SO CLOUDY! I can't even see a few inches deep (it's a 4 ft pool). Should I just start adding liquid chlorine and wait for my own test kit to arrive? I'm also holding off on the additional phos remover for now. I'm so frustrated! Thank you in advance for any insight and assistance.

PS I hate to think the really nice pool store folks are being anything but helpful to the best of their abilities. It's a local business and they seem to have very knowledgeable, experienced staff.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Let me address some issues:
- Pool store testing is almost always unreliable. You MUST test your own water with a good test kit - either a TF-100 or Taylor K_2006C. That is key to an enjoyable season.
- The Frogger and other so-called easy systems are not good at sanitation and in many cases add metals (copper) the water. Your should stick to just liquid chlorine each day.

Once you receive one of those kits (I recommend the TF-100), post a full set of water test results and we can give you "accurate" guidance. Until that time, add about 5 ppm of liquid chlorine to teh water each day. That's it. Use our PoolMath APP to help you with the dosage amounts.

See our Pool Care Basics for lots of great info.

You should also get familiar with the SLAM Process to remove algae and the FC/CYA Levels.

 

[RLP]

Welcome. You have found the right place. These folks will get you on the right track, you can trust what your told.
In the meantime, might as well read this I knew I was Pool Stored when...

 

[RLP]

Then this How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Only Please).

 

[valvaltz]

Thanks, Texas Splash and RLP. I have added a gallon of 10% LC per pool math (totally worth the small subscription fee!)
... and the good news is I can return about $200 worth of the pool store products. I'll update when my test kit comes in later this week.

 

[Newdude]

PS I hate to think the really nice pool store folks are being anything but helpful to the best of their abilities.

I have a friendly mom and pop store by me too, but they only know what the industry reps have taught them, which is an impossible method designed to sell chemicals. I won't spend $200 all season and you spent $200 on your *last trip* to the poolstore.

Your local store is both friendly and completely ignorant at the same time. If they realized how bad they were fleecing people, they might not sleep so well.

 

[valvaltz]

Update:

Surprisingly received my Taylor K-2006C testing kit from Amazon today (!)... was expected to arrive Thursday.

FC 18
pH 7.4
TA 110
CH 400
CYA 60

Pool Math says I need to raise FC to 24 (!!!) and will add more once the sun goes down a bit. Once I achieve that level, how long do I need to maintain a level of 24? The water is still cloudy despite adding 2 whopping gallons of 10% LC last night.

Thanks to everyone for their help and support. I'm so happy to have found this great resource.

Edit: I have back washed the filter and rinsed it daily too to help clear out some of the gunk from the flocc and "clarifier". Ugh... never again.

Edit 2: I've added some pictures for reference.

 

[Newdude]

Once I achieve that level, how long do I need to maintain a level of 24?

Until you pass all 3 SLAM exit criteria.

SLAM Process

The more effort you put in maintaining the 24 FC, brushing and vac-ing, the faster the process goes, no matter how bad it is. As the process progresses, the FC holds longer in between adds and it gets much easier. As always, the pool will tell you what it needs.

 

[valvaltz]

Until you pass all 3 SLAM exit criteria.

SLAM Process

The more effort you put in maintaining the 24 FC, brushing and vac-ing, the faster the process goes, no matter how bad it is. As the process progresses, the FC holds longer in between adds and it gets much easier. As always, the pool will tell you what it needs.

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

*not to gloat, but we would have rounded up the poolstores 87 CYA to 90, then told you to drain 50% of the pool.

Good thing we don't put any faith in their #s, huh ?

 

[RLP]

Once you get through the slam, its pretty easy to maintain the pool. You will have crystal clear, sparkling, sanitary water.

 

[valvaltz]

*not to gloat, but we would have rounded up the poolstores 87 CYA to 90, then told you to drain 50% of the pool.

Good thing we don't put any faith in their #s, huh ?

I’m learning the ways

 

[sande005]

You mentioned using Phosphorus remover, clarifier and floc. As one who did battle the same way, for years and years (before discovering the TFP advice) -
1. If you really did use Floc (and are not just calling Clarifier "Floc"), you MUST shut down the pump/filter, and let it settle to the bottom. That could take two days, or even more. Luckily, you have a high level of chlorine, so some time to let it happen. Then you must vacuum it all to waste, bypassing your filter completely. Manually vac slowly and carefully - Floc is easy to break up and return to suspension. No swimming (or brushing) that could stir it up! Hence why you can't run it through the filter, it just breaks up and returns to the pool keeping it all cloudy. After the first time, you may have more that settles out - repeat the vacuuming to waste. But you should get some clearing, and be able to turn on your pump/filter to enable staying on top of your chlorine additions. I've had times where it takes over a week and a half before it stops settling out. (actual vacuuming every 2-3 days). That is extreme, though. You WILL waste a lot of water.
2, The clarifier is supposed to bind the "bits" together tighter, so your filter can grab them. I've never found it to really work. But keep an eye on your pressure, and backwash the filter if it rises. Eventually, by backwashing, it and what it did grab will be flushed out. It too will sometimes settle out to the bottom, but not as well as Floc.
3. As noted in the pool store advice sheet, the Phosphorus remover likely is a big part of the cloudiness. The floc and clarifier will help with that - but it is a long, slow, water wasting process to clear all the result.

Meanwhile, continue with the TFP advice, especially the SLAM and the overnight tests to determine when you have likely killed all the algae and can back down on the chlorine. Monitor your CYA - with all the vac to waste, you may be lowering it a good bit. Those methods will defeat any algae you may have that also contributes to the cloudiness.

Finally, you may want to take the down time to also "deep clean" your sand filter. It is true that a semi-dirty sand filter filters better. But if really dirty, it may no longer be at its best. When I had mine, doing the deep clean helped a lot during times like the above. Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

 

[valvaltz]

You mentioned using Phosphorus remover, clarifier and floc. As one who did battle the same way, for years and years (before discovering the TFP advice) -
1. If you really did use Floc (and are not just calling Clarifier "Floc"), you MUST shut down the pump/filter, and let it settle to the bottom. That could take two days, or even more. Luckily, you have a high level of chlorine, so some time to let it happen. Then you must vacuum it all to waste, bypassing your filter completely. Manually vac slowly and carefully - Floc is easy to break up and return to suspension. No swimming (or brushing) that could stir it up! Hence why you can't run it through the filter, it just breaks up and returns to the pool keeping it all cloudy. After the first time, you may have more that settles out - repeat the vacuuming to waste. But you should get some clearing, and be able to turn on your pump/filter to enable staying on top of your chlorine additions. I've had times where it takes over a week and a half before it stops settling out. (actual vacuuming every 2-3 days). That is extreme, though. You WILL waste a lot of water.
2, The clarifier is supposed to bind the "bits" together tighter, so your filter can grab them. I've never found it to really work. But keep an eye on your pressure, and backwash the filter if it rises. Eventually, by backwashing, it and what it did grab will be flushed out. It too will sometimes settle out to the bottom, but not as well as Floc.
3. As noted in the pool store advice sheet, the Phosphorus remover likely is a big part of the cloudiness. The floc and clarifier will help with that - but it is a long, slow, water wasting process to clear all the result.

Meanwhile, continue with the TFP advice, especially the SLAM and the overnight tests to determine when you have likely killed all the algae and can back down on the chlorine. Monitor your CYA - with all the vac to waste, you may be lowering it a good bit. Those methods will defeat any algae you may have that also contributes to the cloudiness.

Finally, you may want to take the down time to also "deep clean" your sand filter. It is true that a semi-dirty sand filter filters better. But if really dirty, it may no longer be at its best. When I had mine, doing the deep clean helped a lot during times like the above. Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

Thanks so much, Sande005, for your detailed reply.

1) yes I did use floc (or as I like to call it, the F word now!!). I did do a thorough vacuum to waste afterwards that got all kinds of junk out. I’m hesitant to turn off the pump while slamming. This morning I took a large Pyrex dish of pool water and plan to let it sit to see if anything settles to the bottom. If it does, I’ll turn off the filter and let the pool settle for a good 24+ hrs.

2) I was using very briefly a clarifier. It didn’t do anything

3) my phos actually doubled after adding a quart phosphate remover & that’s what made me think it’s just algae trying to grow. That along with burning through chlorine.

I attached today’s chemistry results & a photo of the water sample I’m “watching”.

It’s so annoying that it’s 104 in ATX today and I can’t even enjoy my pool

 

[Bperry]

Thanks so much, Sande005, for your detailed reply.

1) yes I did use floc (or as I like to call it, the F word now!!). I did do a thorough vacuum to waste afterwards that got all kinds of junk out. I’m hesitant to turn off the pump while slamming. This morning I took a large Pyrex dish of pool water and plan to let it sit to see if anything settles to the bottom. If it does, I’ll turn off the filter and let the pool settle for a good 24+ hrs.

2) I was using very briefly a clarifier. It didn’t do anything

3) my phos actually doubled after adding a quart phosphate remover & that’s what made me think it’s just algae trying to grow. That along with burning through chlorine.

I attached today’s chemistry results & a photo of the water sample I’m “watching”.

It’s so annoying that it’s 104 in ATX today and I can’t even enjoy my pool

If you can see the bottom of the pool, it’s fine to swim. Just need to make sure you can see anyone at the bottom who’s in trouble.

 

[valvaltz]

If you can see the bottom of the pool, it’s fine to swim. Just need to make sure you can see anyone at the bottom who’s in trouble.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for the safety reminder. Definitely cannot see the bottom right now.

 

[valvaltz]

You mentioned using Phosphorus remover, clarifier and floc. As one who did battle the same way, for years and years (before discovering the TFP advice) -
1. If you really did use Floc (and are not just calling Clarifier "Floc"), you MUST shut down the pump/filter, and let it settle to the bottom. That could take two days, or even more. Luckily, you have a high level of chlorine, so some time to let it happen. Then you must vacuum it all to waste, bypassing your filter completely. Manually vac slowly and carefully - Floc is easy to break up and return to suspension. No swimming (or brushing) that could stir it up! Hence why you can't run it through the filter, it just breaks up and returns to the pool keeping it all cloudy. After the first time, you may have more that settles out - repeat the vacuuming to waste. But you should get some clearing, and be able to turn on your pump/filter to enable staying on top of your chlorine additions. I've had times where it takes over a week and a half before it stops settling out. (actual vacuuming every 2-3 days). That is extreme, though. You WILL waste a lot of water.
2, The clarifier is supposed to bind the "bits" together tighter, so your filter can grab them. I've never found it to really work. But keep an eye on your pressure, and backwash the filter if it rises. Eventually, by backwashing, it and what it did grab will be flushed out. It too will sometimes settle out to the bottom, but not as well as Floc.
3. As noted in the pool store advice sheet, the Phosphorus remover likely is a big part of the cloudiness. The floc and clarifier will help with that - but it is a long, slow, water wasting process to clear all the result.

Meanwhile, continue with the TFP advice, especially the SLAM and the overnight tests to determine when you have likely killed all the algae and can back down on the chlorine. Monitor your CYA - with all the vac to waste, you may be lowering it a good bit. Those methods will defeat any algae you may have that also contributes to the cloudiness.

Finally, you may want to take the down time to also "deep clean" your sand filter. It is true that a semi-dirty sand filter filters better. But if really dirty, it may no longer be at its best. When I had mine, doing the deep clean helped a lot during times like the above. Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

Follow up question, Sande005. Looking at my “sample” with the sediment here, would you recommend shutting off the pump mid-SLAM to allow this stuff to settle and then vacuum to waste in next 24-48? Is this what floc leftovers look like? Originally it was thicker and more like glue in the water when I did the first vacuum to waste post floc which was last week.

Presumably I would return to running pump 24/7 there after.

Trying to determine is SLAM is priority or if getting particles out would be the priority. TIA! And thanks for your patience with the is newbie

 

[sande005]

I never tried looking at a small sample, just judged by the amount of precipitate obviously accumulating on the bottom of the pool. It could be floc, algae, or both. Especially in corners and a few other spots where it seems to pile up more than others. But I would say that if it is noticeable in the sample, the same would be true in the pool, and more vacuuming will be needed. The floc is slightly heavier than water, so it will settle out in time, even with the pool running. It just takes longer as some diminishing part of it is kept in suspension. I'm a bit new at adopting the TFP methodology, so am hesitant to advise on Cl levels, system run time, etc. The overnight test (Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)) should give you a clear idea of when you have killed all the algae and can cut back your Cl additions to normal levels. Dead algae sinks to the bottom (slowly). You may want to consider just running your system long enough to mix in any new chlorine additions (a couple of hours), with the rest being off time to promote more settling. Test a couple of times a day, to make sure you aren't getting dips in the Cl levels due to sun, rain, etc. that could allow algae to come back. It will not be a quick process, but keeping up on it will eventually clear your pool. I usually tried to vac prior to times I knew others wanted to use it. Just so they wouldn't resuspend stuff on the bottom. If the water was somewhat cloudy, so be it - they wouldn't be adding to the issue.

So, in sum - the SLAM and OCLT are important to make sure you don't have on-going cloudiness due to live algae. Closely followed by periodic vac to waste of whatever builds up on the bottom.

I just ran across this article about the phosphate remover (Phosphate Removers - Further Reading), so it too is acting like the floc. Since you seem to have had an algae outbreak that started this whole thing, the warnings about it giving invalid test numbers seem appropriate. It seems the pool store had you add it at a time when it would do no good at all. It has never been a product I have used. I would tend to avoid its use, and just concentrate on having good Cl numbers to keep future algae in check.

 

[Bperry]

Follow up question, Sande005. Looking at my “sample” with the sediment here, would you recommend shutting off the pump mid-SLAM to allow this stuff to settle and then vacuum to waste in next 24-48? Is this what floc leftovers look like? Originally it was thicker and more like glue in the water when I did the first vacuum to waste post floc which was last week.

Presumably I would return to running pump 24/7 there after.

Trying to determine is SLAM is priority or if getting particles out would be the priority. TIA! And thanks for your patience with the is newbie

It’s going to be hard to know for sure with that stuff in the water. If floc-water passes through the filter, it’ll wreck the filter. So you need to do whatever you can to vacuum it out to waste so it doesn’t do that. If you’re confident it’s out of the water you can continue on with SLAM.

 

[sande005]

With a sand filter, it won't wreck anything. Worst case is it may plug it up with dirt that back washing doesn't get out, requiring a deep cleaning. But in the many years I used floc with an undersized filter, there was no long term problem. The filter just promotes the floc breaking up into super fine particles again and puts them back into suspension in the pool.