New pool build in AZ!

[Time2Relax]

Hello All - Moving to a little place just west of Phoenix and will be building a pool starting (hopefully) in a few months. In escrow right now with contingency so no exact date, but soon. I'd like to get the build done this fall (2023) and be in the pool by next swim season.

As of right now, I'm planning on going the Owner/Builder route to save a few bucks and to get better control of the schedule. I've been hearing outrageous amounts of money and time to get this done by a pool builder around here. (2yrs, $60 k) and I just think I can do better.

Background - I am a retired Home Builder from SoCal, with a strong past in the swimming pool trade since the 1970s. Had a C-53 builders license myself and did some builds but mostly remodeling. So I have, errr had the knowledge to do this, but it's been 30 years since I was around pools and I know the industry/materials/equipment/etc has changed a lot.
But a pool is still a pool, right?

I'll be checking out the posts and getting some background knowledge and then asking a lot of question (I apologize in advance I'll appreciate all help and guidance!

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think you know this given your background but, as an O/B, you’re going to be on the bottom of any sub-contractors priority list. Your experience is great for dealing with the subs and probably twisting their arms on price (you know more than the average joe) but the subs live to satisfy their big pool builder clients and if comes down to working on your pool versus do a job for their PB that feeds them 25-30 jobs per year, they’re going to come up with all manners of excuse not to show up at your site or they’ll send over the crew run by their 18 year old nephew who barely knows how to wipe his own rear end let alone run a crew.

Just sayin’ … not trying to discourage … but I’m guessing you know all this.

Anyway, I’m a big Pentair fan so I say look at their stuff. The IntelliCenter is their flagship automation system and their variable speed pumps and salt water chlorine generators are the gold standard. Stay away from the hype (mineral systems, ozone, UV, etc). Install a salt water chlorine generator pool and you’ll be golden.

Also, make sure your home has a whole house water softener install and make sure that your pool’s auto fill line is hooked up to the softener water supply. You will regret it otherwise.

WaterTec is a great, locally owned family company for water conditioning needs.

 

[Time2Relax]

Thank you @JoyfulNoise ! Yes I know that that will be my biggest challenge - getting the subs to take me seriously when they have bigger clients waiting. I have some tricks, other than the 'look me in the eye and firm handshake' kinda thing. And I'm hoping that by building off-season I might get a break...?

I'm looking at Pentair. Definitely multi-speed pump. 48 SF DE filter. No heater. Salt generator. Keep It Simple.

Basic 15 x 30 ft kidney shape for now. A couple big rocks on the side with a water feed off the return line. Ledge seat with unbrella mount.

Not sure yet about surface material...... or coping.....

 

[Time2Relax]

Also, make sure your home has a whole house water softener install and make sure that your pool’s auto fill line is hooked up to the softener water supply. You will regret it otherwise.

WaterTec is a great, locally owned family company for water conditioning needs.

Because of the hard water I assume?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thank you @JoyfulNoise ! Yes I know that that will be my biggest challenge - getting the subs to take me seriously when they have bigger clients waiting. I have some tricks, other than the 'look me in the eye and firm handshake' kinda thing. And I'm hoping that by building off-season I might get a break...?

I'm looking at Pentair. Definitely multi-speed pump. 48 SF DE filter. No heater. Salt generator. Keep It Simple.

Basic 15 x 30 ft kidney shape for now. A couple big rocks on the side with a water feed off the return line. Ledge seat with unbrella mount.

Not sure yet about surface material...... or coping.....

Filters - oversize it. Way oversize. Take it from me, don’t do DE. I have a QuadDE100 and it’s a great filter but I’m about to get rid of it soon and will be going with a Pentair Clean & Clear cartridge filter. Either the 460sf or 520sf version. Bigger filter means less time between filter cleaning. Bigger is ALWAYS better.

Pentair IntelliFlo VSF pump … it’s literally the gold standard.

Get automation. Sounds fancy but it’s not. You really want to have the ability to control your pool from inside the house. If you’ve never lived in AZ you simply have no experience with months of triple digit air temps. You really want that pool controlled from the comfort of your LazyBoy chair.

SWG … you want to size it at a MINIMUM of 2X your pool volume. As with filters, bigger is always better.

Surface - up to you but plaster/pebble is the only surface that makes sense in AZ. You can go super fancy with Hydrazzo polished plaster or go with simple white plaster. Up to your budget.

Because of the hard water I assume?

Hahaha … I only half joke with people not from around here - when you turn on the water spigot here, concrete slurry comes out of the faucet … your building your home so, if you don’t want to wreck every heater and water fixture in your brand new home, get a whole house softener. If you don’t, be prepared to chip cement off your fixtures and replace your hot water heaters every 5 years.

Here’s a meme for your future -



It’s not a joke …

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Oh … and you say “no heater” now but you will want one. You don’t think you will, but you will. If I were you I would at least run a natural gas line out to the pool equipment pad capable of supporting a 400kBTU gas heater and simply cap the stub. Also, configure your plumbing and your equipment so you can drop in a heater and hook it right up. You might also stub out PVC for solar heating if you want to really extend your swim season.

You may not get a heater up front in your initial build, but you will want one soon enough … you can come back to this thread in a few years and thank me when you hook up your new gas heater …

 

[derekbishop]

Hey Time2Relax,

Fellow West Valley’er. The pool building market has shifted quite a bit in the last few months. The subs are actually sitting around for work. Your ability to get them scheduled shouldn’t be a problem in the fall. I think fears of where the economy is going have people rethinking a pool purchase. The pool builders themselves have also just fully taken advantage of using supply shortages as an excuse to drag their feet with completing project in a reasonable time frame.

If you need a contact to help with your pool plans send me a DM. I’ve used the guy. His prices are very reasonable, uses pool studio, and does everything to scale (for permits). I also have sub lists.

 

[kimkats]

This is going to be a fun one!!

 

[Newdude]

Yes I know that that will be my biggest challenge - getting the subs to take me seriously when they have bigger clients waiting.

It will also be your biggest asset.

You won't be reliant on a 3rd party relaying your concerns/instructions to the subs. When the subs are on-site, you'll have more pull as the paying party. Far too many subs don't give a hoot about the homeowner and figure the PB will smooth it over somehow.

When the PB can't smooth you over, you'll be stuck waiting for him to call the subs on his schedule, to the level of his understanding/care of your problem.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.
Matt has provided lots of very good guidance.
After having a pool here in the desert for 8 years, here would be my preferred build ----
Rectangle, benches so water hits at shoulder height, auto cover, chiller, small heater, softened water for make up, saltwater chlorine generator, VS pump, automation. Stay away from deck jets, sheer descents, waterfalls, integrated spa, etc.

Enjoy the forum.

 

[Time2Relax]

Filters - oversize it. Way oversize. Take it from me, don’t do DE. I have a QuadDE100 and it’s a great filter but I’m about to get rid of it soon and will be going with a Pentair Clean & Clear cartridge filter. Either the 460sf or 520sf version. Bigger filter means less time between filter cleaning. Bigger is ALWAYS better.

From my old pool cleaner days, I prefer the DE filters because of the ability to filter a smaller micron particle. In my old pool route (in San Diego County) there were literally no cartridge filters and when there were , we got rid of them pretty quick. Everything was DE, and the square footage is not really relative. In other words, a 48SF DE filter is technically more efficient than a 400SF cartridge. They're easier to clean regularly as well. So I'm already sold on DE, sorry...
Studying the rest of your recommended list, I will probably have questions....

 

[Time2Relax]

It will also be your biggest asset.

You won't be reliant on a 3rd party relaying your concerns/instructions to the subs. When the subs are on-site, you'll have more pull as the paying party. Far too many subs don't give a hoot about the homeowner and figure the PB will smooth it over somehow.

Well that's what I was thinking/hoping, and it made sense to me.....

 

[Time2Relax]

Pentair IntelliFlo VSF pump … it’s literally the gold standard. Got it!

Get automation. Sounds fancy but it’s not. You really want to have the ability to control your pool from inside the house. If you’ve never lived in AZ you simply have no experience with months of triple digit air temps. You really want that pool controlled from the comfort of your LazyBoy chair. This will be a pool only, one rock waterfall on all the time. I just don't see the need to automate anything...?

SWG … you want to size it at a MINIMUM of 2X your pool volume. As with filters, bigger is always better. Got it!

Surface - up to you but plaster/pebble is the only surface that makes sense in AZ. You can go super fancy with Hydrazzo polished plaster or go with simple white plaster. Up to your budget. Any idea what the cost difference is between plaster and pebble?



Hahaha … I only half joke with people not from around here - when you turn on the water spigot here, concrete slurry comes out of the faucet … your building your home so, if you don’t want to wreck every heater and water fixture in your brand new home, get a whole house softener. If you don’t, be prepared to chip cement off your fixtures and replace your hot water heaters every 5 years. We are moving down from N AZ, so well aware of hard water and it's problems!!!

 

[Time2Relax]

Hey Time2Relax,

Fellow West Valley’er. The pool building market has shifted quite a bit in the last few months. The subs are actually sitting around for work. Your ability to get them scheduled shouldn’t be a problem in the fall. I think fears of where the economy is going have people rethinking a pool purchase. The pool builders themselves have also just fully taken advantage of using supply shortages as an excuse to drag their feet with completing project in a reasonable time frame.

If you need a contact to help with your pool plans send me a DM. I’ve used the guy. His prices are very reasonable, uses pool studio, and does everything to scale (for permits). I also have sub lists.

Thank you! Will be in touch...!

 

[Time2Relax]

Welcome to the forum.
Matt has provided lots of very good guidance.
After having a pool here in the desert for 8 years, here would be my preferred build ----
Rectangle, benches so water hits at shoulder height, auto cover, chiller, small heater, softened water for make up, saltwater chlorine generator, VS pump, automation. Stay away from deck jets, sheer descents, waterfalls, integrated spa, etc.

Enjoy the forum.

Thank you! Nice forum, knowlegable folks on here it seems. Rectangle because of cost? I will list my features I am thinking about in a post so everyone can see them and comment.

 

[Time2Relax]

Guys - Here is my starting off list of where I'm heading, inspired already by some advice from on here. Stole DBKs format....
Pool Structure:
Pool Size: 15' x 30' ish, Kidney.. Is rectangle that much cheaper (?)
Depth: 3' - 5' (?) 3/5/3
Baja Shelf: Off second entry step (?), big enough for 2 chairs and umbrella (6x6 oval?)
1 or 2 little bench seats along sides (?)
Coping - Old Safety Style (?)
Deck (?) minimal if any, it butts up to the patio
Waterline Tile: Porcelain tile 6x6"
Finish: Pebble (?) Don't know anything about quartz...
Feature: Rock fountain 2-3 boulders, not too fancy

Pool Equipment:
Pump: Pentair VSP 1-1/2 HP (?)
Filter: Pentair DE 48 SF
Heater: None
SWG: Yes Brand TBD
Automation: No
Lights: yes, but (?)
1 Skimmer, deep end downwind, returns other end
AutoFill: No (I want to know how much water is going in every week, use to fix lots of pool leaks
Infloor cleaning: No
Suction side cleaner port: No, will use skimmer to vacuum

All comments appreciated!!!! Leave nothing out...no feelings to be hurt here!! Any other cool stuff to add that isn't too pricey? I want this to be right the first time. I'm pretty certain no heater....8 months of swimming will be fine, no gas anyway. And don't see the point in interior automation, except for light(s) it's just a pool... (you can set the pump hi/lo speed time, right?)

I'm thinking (depending on what $$ the subs want) that I will do the following trades: Plumbing, Electrical and Equipment-set. But I could have my mind changed really easy, I ain't getting any younger

 

[mknauss]

Rectangle because of cost?

For Auto Cover.

 

[mknauss]

AutoFill: No

You will NEVER be able to leave the home for more than a day or two. You must have an autofill. You can put in an automated valve with flow meter so you know how much you are using, but you have to have a way for the pool stay full. Or you will regret it.

 

[mknauss]

Without heater (and cover), the pool will be warm enough to swim from June to September, early. You will never get 8 months without both of those.