Zinc Anode for Salt Water Pools, is that recommended?

[bradgray]

Yeah … looking at those tubes and how badly corroded they are I would say that is a combination of chemical and mechanical etching. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if the pool service was throwing pucks in the skimmer. It’s almost universally done as a standard practice. Add baking soda to the pool to keep the TA up, throw three pucks in the skimmer basket and come back 10 days later. That’s how it’s done around here. The bulk pool water doesn’t matter at all, if you put trichlor in the skimmer you are blasting the equipment with acidic and highly oxidizing water the second the pump kicks in. And if the pump speed is excessive, the copper pipe will just wear down.

It's that common in your area?

We know it happens. We've seen it many times before, but usually on homes without a pool service. Homeowners decide they hate the floater and stick it in there.

First day of training, our techs are told two things will immediately cost them their job: flirting with the client, and dosing in the skimmer.

 

[JamesW]

the homeowner was upset and felt like Pentair hung him to dry.

I think that Pentair probably made the right call.

Unless you can show that the heater materials or construction were somehow defective, then the assumption is that there was a problem that Pentair had no control over.

 

[bradgray]

I think that Pentair probably made the right call.

Unless you can show that the heater materials or construction were somehow defective, then the assumption is that there was a problem that Pentair had no control over.

Precisely. But we appreciate that real effort is expected from the warranty stations and real consideration given by out area reps, each time. We usually have a call about each one as well.

 

[JamesW]

A good warranty station is neutral and is not biased towards or against the customer or manufacturer.

Their job is to try to get to the truth and do the right thing for everyone.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It's that common in your area?

We know it happens. We've seen it many times before, but usually on homes without a pool service. Homeowners decide they hate the floater and stick it in there.

First day of training, our techs are told two things will immediately cost them their job: flirting with the client, and dosing in the skimmer.

Yes. It's practically SOP around here for every pool service I have ever seen. Even when an SWG is present, they ignore it. They'll test the pH of the water first and either adjust it with soda ash or acid. Many use dry acid. Then they'll check FC. If the FC is "low", they'll immediately dose with liquid chlorine to reach the industry standard of 3ppm and then they will either fill up the floater with trichlor tabs or, if the pool doesn't have one, they'll put 3 in the skimmer. I've even seen them put tabs on the skimmer opening surface (tile usually), right in front of the weir door. The amount of "stupid" that goes on around here with pool services is astounding. Very few use any kind of electronic record keeping. Most will just leave a note on the door that they were there with a checklist of what was done. It's pretty pathetic.

 

[JamesW]

If the pump runs continuously, then tabs in a skimmer should not result in excessive chlorine or excessively low pH downstream.

If the tabs take several days to fully dissolve, then the amount of chlorine added to the water is very low for the amount of water.

A tab is about 200 grams.

If the tabs take 3 days to dissolve, then that is about 2.8 grams per hour or about 46.3 milligrams per minute.

This is the downstream effect for each tab at 20 GPM or 1,200 gallons (4542.494 Liters) per hour.

For ten tabs at 20 GPM, the effect is Raise FC by 5.6 and lower the pH by 0.3.





In any case, I would never use tabs in a skimmer if the pump was going to be turned off or if the system has a heater.

If the pump runs continuously and there is no heater, I think that tabs can sometimes be used without problem in a skimmer.

 

[bradgray]

It's that common in your area?

Yes. It's practically SOP around here for even pool service I have ever seen. Even when an SWG is present, they ignore it. They'll test the pH of the water first and either adjust it with soda ash or acid. Many use dry acid. Then they'll check FC. If the FC is "low", they'll immediately dose with liquid chlorine to reach the industry standard if 3ppm and then they will either fill up the floater with trichlor tabs or, if the pool doesn't have one, they'll put 3 in the skimmer. I've even seen them put tabs on the skimmer opening surface (tile usually), right in front of the weir door. The amount of "stupid" that goes on around here with pool services is astounding. Very few use any kind of electronic record keeping. Most will just leave a note on the door that they were there with a checklist of what was done. It's pretty pathetic.

This makes me angry. It's not a difficult job.

 

[bradgray]

If the pump runs continuously, then tabs in a skimmer should not result in excessive chlorine or excessively low pH downstream.

In any case, I would never use tabs in a skimmer if the pump was going to be turned off or if the system has a heater.

If the pump runs continuously and there is no heater, I think that tabs can sometimes be used without problem in a skimmer.

I can see how the collateral may be less in those cases, but virtually every pool in our area has a heater except for an occasional vinyl pool. We just don't tolerate skimmer dosing at all. We stress acid more than we stress tabs, but the rule is nothing ever goes into it. And while I will confess to adding LC into my personal pool skimmer, our techs are not allowed to do it.

It's easy to avoid all the potential consequences if you avoid the potential trigger.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

This makes me angry. It's not a difficult job.

I think it’s just the market around here. Phoenix is a much bigger market, probably 10X the number of pools up there compared to Tucson. So the competition will naturally be better and result in better companies offering better services.

Around here in Tucson, any schmuck with a pickup truck and skimmer pole can hang a shingle on the side of the truck and call themselves a “pool service”. They don’t even have to be a registered, licensed contractor - they can operate under the handyman exemption since the service costs are below $1000. So you’ve got plenty of cheap service people that can scoop up all the customers that don’t have a lot of money to spend. The only way to make a good life as a service provider here is to do mostly commercial work for the big hotels and apartment communities. Residential work just fills in the gaps. So it’s all really low quality workmanship when dealing with the cheap service guys.

 

[bradgray]

will immediately cost them their job: flirting with the client,

Everyone laughs, but it's true. Because we do so many vacation rentals, we have an inordinate number of half-dressed women at our properties and techs need to keep their eyes pointed above the neck.

Truthfully our guys are fantastic. But the temptation can be real and it's helpful for them to know, in the absence of their religion, their boss will give them a reason to behave.

 

[bradgray]

I think it’s just the market around here. Phoenix is a much bigger market, probably 10X the number of pools up there compared to Tucson. So the competition will naturally be better and result in better companies offering better services.

Around here in Tucson, any schmuck with a pickup truck and skimmer pole can hang a shingle on the side of the truck and call themselves a “pool service”. They don’t even have to be a registered, licensed contractor - they can operate under the handyman exemption since the service costs are below $1000. So you’ve got plenty of cheap service people that can scoop up all the customers that don’t have a lot of money to spend. The only way to make a good life as a service provider here is to do mostly commercial work for the big hotels and apartment communities. Residential work just fills in the gaps. So it’s all really low quality workmanship when dealing with the cheap service guys.

The largest misconception we observe is the belief that it takes more of the company's time to do it right. If you are a service provider who expects a lifetime client, this is never true.

While we recognize many do it out of ignorance, it's the deliberate shortcutting that tends to rile me up.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

To bring the discussion back to the original point, I see no problem with adding a ProTek type zinc anode to the heater, with PROPER wiring, other than the cost of the unit and the time to check it, clean it, and maintain it. Its not going to make anything worse but your your mileage may vary on whether or not it’s really doing any good. It’s sort of like adding a surge protector to the automation panel - cheap insurance and it shows you are being proactive about keeping the unit in good shape.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think the Protek type zinc anodes clock in around $200. In an existing install you’ll need to do a little bit of PVC plumbing work to make it fit. So even if you’re all-in at $400 installed … meh, not a big deal. The consumable anodes look to be about $50 a pop but honestly it’s a pretty chunky piece of zinc so if you’re eating one of those up every year, I’d be worried about something weird going on.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It might even be a good visual indicator for a service person to look at. If the zinc anode looks really worn and eroded and it’s not too old, then the system might need further examination to see if there’s an issue going on.

 

[bradgray]

It might even be a good visual indicator for a service person to look at. If the zinc anode looks really worn and eroded and it’s not too old, then the system might need further examination to see if there’s an issue going on.

The anecdote that our rep shared, was a circumstance where they were there for something unrelated and noticed the swollen anode. Equipment had only been running for a few days. He told the homeowner it needed to be looked into. Turned out there was an imbalance between the pad and the house. I can't remember the details but it had something to do with multiple buildings.

 

[JamesW]

So, the consensus seems to be that it can be a good diagnostic even if it is not necessarily a good type of protection.

It might help provide some protection.

It would be preferable to avoid adding any metal, including zinc, to the water.

I do not know if zinc metal creates any known colored stains.

Zinc oxide it white, so probably not a concern for white pools.

You might also get some zinc hydroxide.

Maybe a concern for darker plasters if there is a lot of zinc in the water and if the zinc creates stains.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Zinc metal contamination is, for the most part, a non-issue. As a metal ion it has very, very low aqueous solubility at normal pool pH levels and will almost immediately scale out as either an oxide, hydroxide, or carbonate (usually it’s a mixed scale). The scale is either white or off-white. It can pick up a slightly yellow color if it precipitates as a chloride but that is somewhat unusual given the high solubility of most metal chlorides. I’d be much more worried about iron or copper contamination.

 

[JamesW]

Zinc oxide is a good sunscreen, so maybe it will protect the chlorine from UV?

 

[JamesW]

Here is a hypochlorite ion without zinc oxide sunscreen and a hypochlorite ion with zinc oxide sunscreen.

As you can clearly see, the hypochlorite ion with zinc oxide sunscreen is completely invisible.

It's like stealth RAM for jets, but for molecules.

You just have to figure out how to apply the sunscreen to each molecule.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You just have to figure out how to apply the sunscreen to each molecule.