Year round or not...

[RASelkirk]

Hi All,

I live in SETX and have run my pool year round since it's initial install in 1993. This was somewhat messy and temperamental with tabs but when I switched over to salt in ~ 2005, things got better - until the weather patterns over the past few years have made me wonder if it's time to stop treating from Nov thru Mar and just let it ride.

We'll get 5" of rain over a couple days which drops my salt around 600 points, not to mention my CYA to 0, and causes me to pump out what remains so the skimmer will work. Then I'll add salt and the rain comes again. I've dumped prolly 6 bags of salt since Christmas with no end in sight. Water temps are usually below 60° and sometimes get into the 40's during this stretch. My though is to shut down the chlorinator and just run the pump long enough for 1 turnover, about 6 hrs.

Your thoughts?

Russ

 

[duraleigh]

Those test results don't work out. A 5" rain won't drop your salt that much nor take your CYA to zero.

How are you testing?

 

[Mdragger88]

You can use the tabs sparingly to help with chlorination & cya in the winter & or use liquid chlorine when the swg no longer produces due to temp.
either way you must keep fc above minimum for your cya or things will grow albeit more slowly in the cold water.
FC/CYA Levels.
Turnover is not what keeps the pool algae free, adequate fc is.
You could also elect to close & winterize the pool when water temps are below 60 degrees then open before they rise above 60 degrees.

 

[RASelkirk]

What I stated is a gross approximation over time, so let's please forget about the numbers not matching up with specs. While my salt numbers may not drop exactly 600 in one whack, rain dilution and subsequent pumping out after each rain drops it below the level req'd for generation, hence needing way more salt than normal. At least it feels like 6 bags in an 18k pool over 7 weeks is more than normal...

Here at home I use 6-way strips (I know everyone here hates strips!) but they are very close to what the professional shop shows on water tests.

I've always had a problem with CYA since going with salt. I can add 10# and go from zero to 50-ish and it *may* hold for a week or two then fall off to zero again. The past few years, I've been content to leave it be and make up for it by running my cell @ 70% for 12 hrs a day. It just makes it harder to maintain a consistent FC level, and I'm probably wrong, but it seems logical that FC would be easier to maintain in cold(er) water.

The question is whether or not to run all year or let it slide for the winter months. Looks like M'88 may think it's an option.

Thanks!

Russ

 

[Newdude]

Here at home I use 6-way strips (I know everyone here hates strips!) but they are very close to what the professional shop shows on water tests.

We put zero faith in the shop too. The tests are off far too often, proven time and time and time again. Some days it's like they've got a random number generator instead of a tester.

I've always had a problem with CYA since going with salt. I can add 10# and go from zero to 50-ish and it *may* hold for a week or two then fall off to zero again.

You simply cannot test CYA with strips. 0, 20-50, 100 and 200 are not even close to helpful.

You need a reliable and repeatable testing method or you'll be continuing to guess at things that don't make sense.

 

[Newdude]

Do you have an auto fill ?

 

[RASelkirk]

Do you have an auto fill ?

Guess not, I don't know of "auto fill" other than the computer/phone autofill...

I did try and order a Taylor test kit (K-1721?) to no avail. Discontinued? Ended up finding a TFTestKit that uses the same reagent as Taylor for half the price but w/o the case. I will be looking to see what it shows.

Ordered a 25# sack of CYA from Amazon last week, it was out for delivery and apparently burst so it now shows as "undeliverable". No resolution as of yet, but I'll be reordering when it refunds.

Russ

 

[woodyp]

A "professional shop" is where I'm buying a pool from. We discussed my association with the forum just so she'd know not to try and stick it to me.

A week or so went by before I pulled the trigger and she had forgotten. Wrapping up the contract she reminds me to bring a sample in once a week.....then said...oh but you use drop tests.....so never mind! The "professional" had never ever heard of the fas-dpd chlorine test!

 

[Mdragger88]

To clarify, “letting everything slide” or forgetting about the pool for a few/couple months isn’t a good plan & not what I intended to convey.
I meant don’t try to keep up the salt & higher cya levels necessary to operate the swg & just manually dose being sure fc never falls below minimum for your cya according to the
FC/CYA Levels.
Many people who keep their pool open year round do this because of the on again/off again nature of a swg in colder water temperatures. You would then replenish salt & cya once you’re ready to fire the swg back up in the spring.

Btw, The ranges on the strips are terrible & will have you chasing your tail. Same with the pool store tests. Especially cya.

The recommended test kits for a salt pool are the
Taylor K2006 +salt
or
the tf100/tfpro +salt
they all come in a case but each one is a bit different ranging from basic to fancy.
Buying the +salt version just adds the K1766 salt test for a little cheaper than buying it separately.

An autofill is a hard plumbed line to your pool with a float to automatically fill it if the water level drops below a certain level.
Many pools with an autofill will also have an overflow drain somewhere. This set up can often mask the presence of leaks because the water level never noticeably changes.
If you’re certain you don’t have these you still may want to check for a leak if the cya, salt, & ch get depleted quickly without other causes like lots of precipitation & subsequent draining.
The bucket test is an easy way to do this.

Leak Detection

A number of things can cause leaks in your pool. You can learn tricks for leak detection and how to pinpoint where your pool is losing water.

www.google.com

 

[RASelkirk]

To clarify, “letting everything slide” or forgetting about the pool for a few/couple months isn’t a good plan & not what I intended to convey.
I meant don’t try to keep up the salt & higher cya levels necessary to operate the swg & just manually dose being sure fc never falls below minimum for your cya according to the
FC/CYA Levels.
Many people who keep their pool open year round do this because of the on again/off again nature of a swg in colder water temperatures. You would then replenish salt & cya once you’re ready to fire the swg back up in the spring.

Btw, The ranges on the strips are terrible & will have you chasing your tail. Same with the pool store tests. Especially cya.

The recommended test kits for a salt pool are the
Taylor K2006 +salt
or
the tf100/tfpro +salt
they all come in a case but each one is a bit different ranging from basic to fancy.
Buying the +salt version just adds the K1766 salt test for a little cheaper than buying it separately.

I saw the K2006, since I already have their salt kit didn't want to duplicate it. However, the K1721 was unavailable so I ended up with the base TFT kit.

An autofill is a hard plumbed line to your pool with a float to automatically fill it if the water level drops below a certain level.
Many pools with an autofill will also have an overflow drain somewhere. This set up can often mask the presence of leaks because the water level never noticeably changes.

Ahh, got it. No I don't have that but I do (or did) have an overflow drain built into the base of my skimmer. I had to block it with a PVC plug as it kept back-flowing muddy water with heavy rain. I do have a tiny leak somewhere, as my pump basket leaks down overnight. I've sat and watched it for random 10 minute stretches without seeing any bubbles or gurgling thru the lid, but by morning it's half empty.

If you’re certain you don’t have these you still may want to check for a leak if the cya, salt, & ch get depleted quickly without other causes like lots of precipitation & subsequent draining.
The bucket test is an easy way to do this.

Leak Detection

A number of things can cause leaks in your pool. You can learn tricks for leak detection and how to pinpoint where your pool is losing water.

www.google.com

Unless we have another "Harvey" or "Imelda" (both of which we went through), our spring/summer is usually a lot drier than what we're getting now, so that water must be added for evaporation loss. But at least the water treatments are still in situ and not being pumped out. It'll be interesting to see what the CYA actually is and how it behaves over time. If nothing else, at least I can get a handle on that mystery!

Thanks!

Russ

 

[Texas Splash]

Back to your original question, over here in S.A we're about the same latitude so our weather is fairly close. I leave my pool running all year long. It's just not worth the trouble to blow out lines and all that stuff like up north. Chemistry wise, it's extremely easy once the water gets cold as it takes very little chlorine per week. SWGs tend to not produce FC as well in the cold, so adding a little liquid chlorine each week is easy.

Hopefully you don't have a leak somewhere as that is really the only way you would be losing salt and CYA at a fast pace. As you've heard many times above, there's no substitute for accurate home testing with a good test kit, and it looks like you have one now so that's great. If you have any other questions let us know. Enjoy the (chilly) weekend.

 

[RASelkirk]

Weird story on my "Amazon" CYA, it apparently suffered a leak and was locked up/hidden by UPS for ~ 10 days. Applied to Amazon for a refund since it was no longer in the system, so 10 days later UPS delivers the once-missing CYA inside of an overly taped outer box. The sack looked pristine aside from a piece of clear package tape stuck on it about midway down, which I'm OK with. Cancelled my refund but still got it 2 days later. Free 25# sack of CYA? Anyways, got my TFT kit today, and after adding 4 cups yesterday (yeah, I know - no idea of the weight), I'm showing 35 ppm's. Added another 4 cups today (I promise, I'll weigh it per cup!) and will see what it shows tomorrow.

I believe the CYA has been my main issue, hopefully a proper kit will level things out.

Russ

 

[Mdragger88]

Weird story on my "Amazon" CYA, it apparently suffered a leak and was locked up/hidden by UPS for ~ 10 days. Applied to Amazon for a refund since it was no longer in the system, so 10 days later UPS delivers the once-missing CYA inside of an overly taped outer box. The sack looked pristine aside from a piece of clear package tape stuck on it about midway down, which I'm OK with. Cancelled my refund but still got it 2 days later. Free 25# sack of CYA? Anyways, got my TFT kit today, and after adding 4 cups yesterday (yeah, I know - no idea of the weight), I'm showing 35 ppm's. Added another 4 cups today (I promise, I'll weigh it per cup!) and will see what it shows tomorrow.

I believe the CYA has been my main issue, hopefully a proper kit will level things out.

Russ

I got mine today- super fast! Ordered it Wednesday.
When I need to weigh something that’s at least a # i just weigh myself 1st then hold the stuff & weigh again.
I do have a tiny scale but no medium sized one - usually my cya is in a 4 or 5# bag so i can use 1/2 or 1/4 of the bag etc. & it usually works out fine.

 

[RASelkirk]

Amazon cancelled my previously cancelled refund, so we're all even up now.

Made a (ahem) measurement error. My "cups" were actually pints. So 4 pints were added each of the last 2 days. Conversion if anyone is interested:

• 1 cup = 220 grams = ~ 7.8 oz
• 1 pt = 440 grams = ~ 15.5 oz
• 1 qt = 880 grams = ~ 31 oz.

So I ended up adding around 2# each day, 4# total. Last addition won't be dissolved into the system until tomorrow, but it's looking good, should be around 70 ppms...

Russ

 

[RASelkirk]

So this morning all CYA was absorbed and my test kit showed 80 ppms. For giggles I ran a 7-way strip just to see and it was in 30 - 50 range, no where near the 100 color.

Thanks to all for opening my eyes on the proper test kit, I'm certain this will make maintaining a winter balance much easier!

Russ

 

[Texas Splash]

Thanks to all for opening my eyes on the proper test kit, I'm certain this will make maintaining a winter balance much easier!

 

[Methuselah]

I know this is late to the party, but knowing chlorine demand by doing an overnight loss test might help fill in some blanks? The 70% setting and (initial) suggestion CYA was disappearing...

It still couldn't hurt but doesn't seem as critical

 

[RASelkirk]

Well, I think I have this salt consumption issue figured. From Nov '22 to 2 weeks ago, I have added 13 bags of salt which would normally last over a year. Granted, there was a lot of rain-diluted pump out that was confusing me, but that's been stable for the past month while the Aquarite was showing continually lowering numbers. I finally dug out my Taylor kit and got 4200 ppm's. DOH! Bad cell, barely 2 years old (reman) showing 400 on one leg and 2900 on the other. I can (I think) run this with the knob at 100% and the "good" leg should produce chlorine 50% of the time until my cell gets here, right?

Russ

 

[Texas Splash]

I can (I think) run this with the knob at 100% and the "good" leg should produce chlorine 50% of the time until my cell gets here, right?

Humm, I'm not sure about the math on that one. I'll send up the bat signal to @JamesW.

 

[JamesW]

As long as the running average stays above 2,400 ppm, then it will work.

You can change the cell type to T-9 to make it read higher.

The cell should have a 3 year warranty, so file a warranty claim

Take the cell to a store that tests cells and they can test your cell and give you a new one if it tests bad and you can show that it is less than 3 years old.

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