Wow, Am I Totally Confused

[mgtfp]

Everything is always out of whack

Maybe one word of clarification here:

Just because PoolMath "tells" you to add something, doesn't necessarily mean that It's out of wack. A parameter (e.g. CH) is only out of wack if it's out of the recommend range. If it's within the recommend range, then there is nothing to do.

But PoolMath might still "tell" you to do something, because there is a value pre-filled in the target field, and PoolMath will just calculate for you what you needed to do to get to that target value. But if your current value is within the recommended range, then there is no need to do that. PoolMath is just a tool that supports you with calculations, but you still need to tell PoolMath what you want it to calculate for you.

I think, when you use PoolMath for the first time, the targets will be pre-filled with the mid-value of the ideal range. Once you overwrite that target value, PoolMath will remember that.

For example, the CH target is initially pre-filled with 450. If you test then for example 250 with your test kit and enter this as current value into PoolMath, it will tell you how much calcium chloride to add to get to 450. Now comes the point where you have to apply what you learn here at tfp by reading through pool school, reading current and older threads, and posting questions. In your situation with hard fill water, you don't want to add more calcium, and you just ignore what PoolMath tells you in this case. Or you change the target to your current value (250 in this example) to calm PoolMath down.

After a while, your CH will get higher because of your hard fill water. So, after a couple of weeks/months you might test and enter 350 as current value into PoolMath. Because PoolMath will still remember that you changed the target value to 250 (in this example), it will now tell you to replace a certain percentage of your water to get down to the target. That doesn't make sense of course, because 350 is still well within the recommended range, and you just ignore it. Or change the target again to the new current value, so that PoolMath "knows" that everything is OK.

Some parameters, like CH or CYA, change slowly over time. You measure them from time to time, and decide if a change is necessary based on your knowledge acquired here on tfp (I highly recommend to read through all the Pool School articles, and keep asking if things from Pool School don't make sense to you straight away).

Other parameters, especially FC, change quickly, and they need frequent testing and adjusting. A pool consumes in summer typically about 2-4ppm worth of chlorine per day. Some of that is lost to UV light, some to kill bacteria or algea, or other organics like sweat or urine (urine is a real chlorine destroyer).

If regular additions of liquid chlorine (daily or every two days or twice a week, whatever is required to ensure that FC never drops below the minimum level for the current CYA-level) are not feasible, then there are options.

The most convenient option is to go salt, and install a Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG or just SWG), that turns salt (chloride) into chlorine. Without my SWG, I would have filled in my pool long ago, best pool related invention ever.

That could be a way for you. With an SWG, you just needed the pool guy to come from time to time while you are away over summer to empty the skimmer, keep the pool cleanish, add some acid, and adjust the SWG a bit as the seasons change, and some general maintenance.

Or you let the pool guy do his thing with chlorine tabs and weekly "shocks", but then you'll probably have to drain again when you get back due to high CYA (from tabs) and/or high CH (from weekly cal-hypo "shocks" on top of your hard water).

And to fully understand your scenario: Are you actually using the pool when you are only during winter in AZ? Are you renting the house out over summer and the pool will be used by tenants?

Well, that ended up a bit more than one word, hope it helps.

 

[mgtfp]

... and regarding the parameters that really are out of whack, setsailsoon got you covered there already. I just wasn't sure whether the PoolMath questions from earlier in the thread had been clarified enough.

 

[BuckeyeMan]

Buck,

It's almost impossible to provide advice w test logs only posted days or weeks apart. Here's what I think you need to do to get this pool under control:

• Perform your tests then add chemicals as shown in pool math
• With your pump running for about an hour, test again.
• Free chlorine and pH should be your focus until you get your cya level raised. You will have difficulty maintaining free chlorine until you get your cya level up. Cya is like sunscreen for chlorine. You need a minimum amount to keep the Sun from chewing up all of your chlorine. But if your cya gets too high starts to inhibit the free chlorine from working effectively. So you need the range recommended by tfp. As far as I can tell you have not ever achieved this. You will find that cya levels do not change that frequently. During Peak summer months you may need to check once every two weeks or so. It looks to me that your cya level has never been adequate and you will fight a losing battle until you get your cya level right.
• You will need to monitor your levels and make chemical additions much more frequently for a week or two until you get to know your pool. Once you get the hang of it you will be able to reduce chlorine and acid addition frequency to about every one or two days. For now I would test every morning, then make Chemical additions and then test again in an hour to be sure you got it right. If not make some additional adjustments and test again an hour later. Use this approach until you are confident that you achieve tfp ranges
• Tfp methods allow you too easily maintain your pool but they require a little attention at least every day or two. Once you get everything lined out you may be able to go every two to three days but you will not do better than this especially during the summer unless you convert to salt or have a chlorine pump and possibly an automatic pH control.
• Your pH is swinging way too much. I think you are trying to test weekly or less and make big changes. That approach will not work. You should not be making large pH changes greater than 0.4 pH units.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

I see that there is either dry or liquid stabilizer. Also noticed that they sell pods that supposedly you can put in your skimmer basket. I use a sock over my basket to get small debris out of pool. Would it be okay if I was to put the dry stabilizer in the sock that is over the basket? Dry is about $20+, and liquid is $40+, and that is at Walmart.
Also, I put a sock hanging in the pool with dry, also I have a half gallon of liquid that was left here when we bought the house in May of 2020, but pretty sure it is way out of date (#0282022 on bottle)

 

[setsailsoon]

I see that there is either dry or liquid stabilizer. Also noticed that they sell pods that supposedly you can put in your skimmer basket. I use a sock over my basket to get small debris out of pool. Would it be okay if I was to put the dry stabilizer in the sock that is over the basket? Dry is about $20+, and liquid is $40+, and that is at Walmart.
Also, I put a sock hanging in the pool with dry, also I have a half gallon of liquid that was left here when we bought the house in May of 2020, but pretty sure it is way out of date (#0282022 on bottle)

Any type of stabilizer will work. I always preferred the old fashioned way using an old sock or ladies stocking with dry stabilizer. I would put it inside the sock and close the end with a knot so it doesn't accidentally drop out. Use Pool Math to figure out how much to add. No guesswork needed. The only disadvantage of dry is that it dissolves slowly. But I always found that if you squeeze the sock a couple times per day I could add a full sock (about 2lb) in a couple days max. Dry stabilizer is very stable.. no pun sorry. Not sure about liquid, lets see if our resident chemist expert can help on that. Calling @JoyfulNoise . One thing I'm puzzled about is you have already added some stabilizer. But your test results indicates CYA is not going up. How much did you add? A quick check of Pool Math indicates you should see 7.4 ppm increase for each pound added of dry stabilizer. 16 oz of liquid raises it by 2.9 ppm.

 

[Newdude]

Liquid CYA clumps up on the bottom of the bottle and you have to use the whole gallon, and rinse it out thoroghly to get it all. Its real hard to get the desired results with any less than all. And its considerably more expensive so its 0 fer 2.

If you add the dry acid to the skimmer sock, it might float out if the pump stops. Tie it up in another skimmer sock to act like a tea bag. 24 hours later it will be good and mushy and it will squeeze right out (in the pool, you dont want the thick cloud of acid going through the equipment). Whatever dissolved while soaking will likely get trapped in your filter and take a week to fully dissolve. Its ok, but no cleaning the carts until you see the results.